Just Play??

[jvf1095]

Idea I want to bounce off you heavyweights, veteran players & experts as far as a practice routine. I've read tons of stuff on this forum & everywhere imaginable on the web regarding a practice strategy or routine. There are those who say strict etudes, long tones, scales, arpeggios, etc to build your range & endurance. Opposite side of the coin, those who say if you want o build up your endurance & range, just PLAY! Play songs in the low & medium register & play songs in the upper register; or... play songs where the music (or piece) runs from below the staff to above it. But as far as what to practice, Caruso's 6 notes & then just play! Anything to this, or am I starting a raging debate here? Thanks to all.

[jhatpro]

I do both - a lot - every day. I mix things up - start with Caruso, do Clarke for 10 minutes - go for a walk - play from the Standards Real Book for awhile - watch TV or read a chapter of something - play some Top Tones - work on 2-5-1's - rinse and repeat.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[deleted_user_687c31b]

Not an expert, veteran or heavyweight here, but I find that for me personally, I have a harder time applying the proper technique to etudes and technical studies. Part of this may stem from the fact that I used to play them back when my embouchure was terrible, and muscle memory is long. So partly out of neccesity I find myself practicing specific parts from new musical scores to train certain skills. Hitting the high C out of nowhere was hard for me for example, but it appears in an arrangement of The Aristocats that my orchestra plays, so I find myself practicing those few bars a lot. To train playing relaxed above the stave, I've recently started playing the climax from Elizabeth at pp several times in a row. And for low notes, well, a lot of typical funk bass parts (like The Chicken) are very much fun to practice those.

There's great value in etudes and the other excercises you mention, but at the moment, I find I cannot play them properly so I'm avoiding them for the time being. I'm open to suggestions though, as I'd prefer to have some technical excercises as well.

[jvf1095]

Yeah. I see what you guys are saying. I'm using the Caruso 6 notes, & playing some big band or what I call WWII music. Most of it is within the staff or below it, & I'm thinking not only for my emrochure & articulation, but for my flexibility, dexterity, clean tone & range too. So that, & learning to play a song at the same time. For more upper register (or at least mine), I'm playing songs like "Rise" that requires me to play above the staff (G# "A" etc). As a comeback player & reading through the wealth of information in this forum, I know range & a pure tone won't come back overnight & that there are no 'increase your range in 5 minutes" fixes. I have experimented with mouthpieces, & at this point, a PEAK 7C provides me with enough resistance (tight throat) to start to hit notes at the top of the staff clean & with good tone. Will that mouthpiece choice change down the road? Who knows? So weigh in guys. Thank you!!!

[Richard III]

Jhatpro quote from 2015 that, yes, I still remember:

[JayKosta]

'Just play' will work fine as long as you choose material that is challenging enough to result in improvement.

I mainly do 'just play' and I choose the material based on my mood and area of interest.

Some comes from Arban's - I particularly like 'Star of Paris Polka', some of the 'Characteristic Studies, and some of the Fantasies.

Concone Lyric for Trumpet
Some Clarke Solos
Dixieland, Blues, standards, and ballads
1st trpt part of Bugler's Holiday
some Charlier Transcendental
Magic Trumpet by James Burke
and several others...
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[jvf1095]

I agree Jay. Exactly my intention. And to your point, that's what I'm trying to accomplish, that being range, articulation, flexibility, etc, aside from just learning a song. For example, Rise has some very tricky valve combinations, aside from some work at or above the staff. Thanks for weighing in. I value all opinions, especially those with years of playing experience.

[JayKosta]

[jvf1095]

I'll take where you're at sight unseen Jay!! I'm 70, & looking back, I never should have stopped back when I was 20. But I'm coming along slow but sure & in part thanks to everyone on this forum with good advice.

[wilder]

[jvf1095]

All good advice & well taken. As far as lessons, yes, that too.

[dr_trumpet]

It depends on your goals. If your goal is to play and simple enjoyment, the exercises can be mind-numbing.

Think of it like basketball. If you are at a local pick-up game, practicing your release of shot, 1000 free throws, footwork in the paint, specialized shots and the like are not really that big for you. You see the pros do it, wish you could, but it doesn't affect the adult league or the church league games once a week. But, even the minor leagues of basketball (where they pay) are so far removed from that game that the need to drill is less important than the need to just play and enjoy.

The trumpet is the same way for many. If you are playing for your joy, your fun, your entertainment, only you can answer if the exercises and daily studies are worth the time and detriment (if it is a detriment) to your fun with the horn. If you are wanting to be a pro, get used to playing the exercises, the studies, the etudes, because they are how you improve your product (which is your ability to play the trumpet). We all can cite the pro player who doesn't do that or didn't do that, but we can cite far more who do. Most of the greats from all eras of trumpet have written a text of studies. Just go look through a listing of methods and you see it. What they did do was often create a study or series of studies that worked for them, and then shared them with the world.

Caruso, while not a trumpeter, did the same with his trumpet materials. The text is just a collection of things he assigned. Schlossberg is a collection...and many more.

So, I think the answer to the question is really a question. What do you want from the trumpet? What areas do you want to improve? What are you practicing to achieve? Or, are you playing solely for enjoyment? That is NOT a judgment, just an assessment.

Finally, let me share one short example that sort of relates. I played 442 shows at an amusement park one summer (over 700 the next summer). The first summer, I did a brief warm-up every day, then played 8-10 shows a day. I ended every show on an F# above the staff. By the time I returned to college in the fall, I had chops. But I found I struggled horribly with an Arban Characteristic etude or even a Concone. I had to get the strength in my playing to adapt to the playing techniques required for those etudes, etc. I was a bull in the china shop for orchestra. I was unfairly loud in the jazz band. I was great for marching band, but not a lot else. So, I started living daily with Arban, Clarke, and Schlossberg and got the more subtle moments of my playing under control.

The second summer, I drove weekly to Cleveland for lessons with Bernard Adelstein, and working on orchestral elements all summer with him made it possible for me to play well in everything when I returned to campus in the fall. I took extra time every day to practice, and that practice made it possible for me to remain a more complete player, and not simply be able to "play the show".

Once you know what you want, the decisions are guided better for you.

I hope this dissertation makes a little sense and can help.

AL
_________________
Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music

[Noodly]

An advantage in playing "real" music is that you probably already know what it is supposed to sound like.

[cjl]

I think "just play" but with an explanation.

It is important to play and play consistently (daily, ideally). Play whatever material keeps you interested and playing. If you find studies and etudes frustrating then stay away from them until you can enjoy them.

I enjoy studies and etudes. I have played things like Clarke 2 for soooo many years now that it is a bellwether of my playing condition. My daily start is flow studies followed by Clarke 2.

As I play more consistently and feel it, I cut the Clarke in half (play a different half each day) and go quickly to etudes. After that I might play some "real" music. But etudes give me all the skills and exercise I need for the music I am likely to encounter in the groups that I play in (no group playing these days, though).

I started playing the tuba a couple of years ago to fill a need in a community band. When I get tired on trumpet, I switch to tuba for another 30 mins or so. On tuba, I just play music because the etudes and studies are too hard for my current abilities and lack of efficiency so I just do whatever seems fun. The other day I started playing around on Mahler 2 string bass parts - loads of fun! And just playing anything on tuba is good for my acclimation to that instrument which is mostly what I need.

Short answer - do whatever you find fun and keeps you interested. Be a good, realistic critic of yourself and work to satisfy those criticisms.

-- Joe

[mike ansberry]

I am by no means a pro or a heavyweight. But my first trumpet teacher in college never talked about how to practice. He just said if you practice more you get better. I spent 4 years practicing wrong and wound up tearing myself down. It took a lot of years and study to figure out how to practice correctly.

The whole correctly practice thing might be something that varies from person to person. The thing that made the most difference for me was finding the correct embouchure set up for my physiology.
_________________
Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.

[jvf1095]

Thanks guys, to all of you. To try & quantify what I'm looking to do, I just want to play mainly for enjoyment, no gigs, nothing like that. But I do want to play well & I'm getting there. I think my best course of action is to try & improve my endurance & range; & when I say range, I'm not looking for dbl high C's. If I can play a high C off the staff clean, I know that 98% of what I'm looking to play is below that. If I can eventually hit that clean anytime I want, then the G A & B off the staff should be the same to me as any note in the staff. (E & F at the top of the staff are almost routine now, & G & A are at least "achievable").
So to answer questions from you guys, I want to play comfortably from low F# to C above the staff, & I'm about 90% there, range, tone flexibility, articulation, lip bends, slurs, etc much much better than even a month ago. But I realize it's that last 10% above the staff that's the toughest. So with sooooo much instruction material out there, I'm not sure what specifically to concentrate on for MY goals, aside from playing actual music that I'm playing now. I know it might sound like I'm looking for short cuts; but what I'm really NOT looking for is to play lead for an orchestra, jazz band, or Broadway show; but rather take a song like Rise by Herb Alpert, & get through the notes above the staff in the same manner I'm getting through the rest of it, which is pretty good. Right now too, I can play songs like Moonlight Serenade, It's Been a Long Long Time, Summer Time (Porgy & Bess), that type of music very well. So I guess what I'm trying to focus on is a more concentrated type of practice & exercises routine that fits what I'm looking to achieve, versus the ton of material out there. I hope that makes sense to you all.

[Bryant Jordan]

[JayKosta]

[gstump]

I am a heavyweight has been!

I limit "Just Play! to Caruso and other clinic studies. That limits the over analysis. Just play for me means let the medicine work.

Regarding etudes and technical exercises, I have no idea what just play means.

"Just playing" a familiar melody or other simple phrase up in half step a few times a week is a great heavyweight range builder. Do not overdo it or set goals based on what you did last time. Here it comes.......

JUST PLAY
_________________
Schilke B5
Couesnon Flug (1967)
Funk Brothers Horn Section/Caruso Student

[jvf1095]

Thanks Jay, I'll go through that & thanks to all!!!