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Gradyfan
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Joined: 13 May 2020
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 Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:31 pm Post subject: Olds cornet v. Bach Strad trumpet |
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On the comeback trail for a few years now, I've been playing Olds cornets, ranging from the Ambassador to the Super, and I love them all. About a month ago, I purchased a used Bach Strad 180S37 trumpet in beautiful condition.
After practicing on the Bach exclusively for a month, I still don't feel comfortable with it. Today I picked up one of the Olds cornets after practicing with the Bach, and the Olds felt just right immediately, and I sounded a heck of a lot better.
I use the same model mouthpiece on both trumpet and cornet. I am aware the cornets have a large bore and the trumpet is a ML bore model. Is my being accustomed to the large bore what is causing me trouble with the Bach?
Please chime in with any theories. I don't want to give up on the Bach just yet. |
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gtromble
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Joined: 27 Mar 2002
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Location: Silver Spring, Maryland
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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I have tried and failed a few times to like Bach Strads. I suspect it's just that it doesn't play anything like a cornet - it doesn't have the smooth resistance typical of a good cornet. Also possible it is slotting too hard for you. That's a feature of the Strad, and you might find it a lot more effort to get around the horn than with your cornets.
Can you be more specific about what you are uncomfortable with?
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Galen Tromble
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Goby
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| What mouthpiece are you using on each instrument? |
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Gradyfan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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The main difficulty is slotting, as you mentioned.
I use a Bach 1C on both trumpet and cornet.
And thank you to all who respond. |
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Crazy Finn
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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What’s the slotting problem?
It’s not unthinkable that the Super just plays better than the Strad, at least for you.
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Gradyfan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I struggle to play scales cleanly above middle C on the Bach. The notes line up neatly with relative ease for me on the Olds. |
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Gradyfan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| No just on the Super, either. It's also true of the Ambassador, the Special, and the Studio cornets I have. |
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Goby
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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A 1C is a pretty big mouthpiece. Do you do any breathing work like "Breathing Gym" or regular cardiovascular exercise? It takes a very efficient and well-developed approach to play a 1C across the whole range of the instrument. It could be that the two mouthpieces are different enough to throw off your chops. Consider trying a cornet-to-trumpet adapter and use your cornet mouthpiece on your bach trumpet. I would also recommend trying a smaller rim size, and maybe a deeper cup on your trumpet mouthpiece.
You might also want to take your horn to a tech for a professional cleaning. It could be that there's some gunk in a tube somewhere that's making the horn play weird. |
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skishhhh
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Joined: 26 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Gradyfan wrote: | | I use a Bach 1C on both trumpet and cornet.
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I'm an early comeback player with a box full of mouthpieces. The 1C would be huge for me. Right now I'm using a 5C and thinking of moving to something smaller. |
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deleted_user_687c31b
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Joined: 03 Apr 1996
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:50 am Post subject: Re: Olds cornet v. Bach Strad trumpet |
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| Gradyfan wrote: | I use the same model mouthpiece on both trumpet and cornet. I am aware the cornets have a large bore and the trumpet is a ML bore model. Is my being accustomed to the large bore what is causing me trouble with the Bach?
Please chime in with any theories. I don't want to give up on the Bach just yet. |
Could be. I play an Olds Recording trumpet and recently got an Olds Super cornet. The resistance on the cornet is different than on the trumpet (even though mine has a trumpet receiver and I use the same mouthpieces). If the Bach strad plays very light, then that may make the transition harder.
Although Bach strads are very nice horns, it's very possible that it simply isn't the right horn for you. Is there a particular reason you chose this particular trumpet? Did you like it during playtesting or did you buy it it without testing? If it is the former, then maybe you'll need a slightly different approach, or some more time to accommodate to it (maybe a different mouthpiece?). I've been told several times onthese forums that I shouldn't treat my cornet as a trumpet, so the opposite will also be true  .
If you bought it based on brand/reputation/looks without playtesting, then it could be that as nice as the horn is, it may ultimately not be a keeper....but you may want to keep playing it a little longer anyway, just to make sure. |
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chapahi
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:01 am Post subject: |
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You probably just like cornet better. The bell is closer to your ear and it easy to make a nice charming sound. I play mostly trumpet 🎺 but every now and then when things aren’t going my way I pick up my Conn 17a and...ahhh...
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Seymor B Fudd
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| gtromble wrote: | I have tried and failed a few times to like Bach Strads. I suspect it's just that it doesn't play anything like a cornet - it doesn't have the smooth resistance typical of a good cornet. Also possible it is slotting too hard for you. That's a feature of the Strad, and you might find it a lot more effort to get around the horn than with your cornets.
Can you be more specific about what you are uncomfortable with? |
I´ve had the same experience. Once bought myself a brand new Bach Strad cornet, fantastic sound, suberb mechanics, sounded best out of a bunch of high class horns. But playing it in the brassband I rather soon found myself exhausted after a short period of time....tried and tried but no. At one occasion, being completeley done, I borrowed a large bore Getzen Eterna - et voila I was able to play again! As the OP I used the same mouthpiece (although trumpet/cornet versions) Bach 1 1/4C.
So I´ll agree with gtromble - might have something to do with the resistance. I also found it difficult to "navigate" above A. No problems at all, with the Eterna.
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Ed Kennedy
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AndyDavids
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Olds cornet v. Bach Strad trumpet |
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| Gradyfan wrote: | | I purchased a used Bach Strad 180S37 trumpet in beautiful condition. |
Even if the finish is in great shape, that may not account for the valves and/or alignment. There is always the mouthpiece gap question, solder blobs, or excessive tension too.
I have also read that some players (like Mendez) actually preferred looser valves, which can surely affect slotting. |
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falado
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Hi, if $$ is not a problem putting into the Bach, you may want to send it to Jim Becker at Osmun Music for blueprinting. I had a Bach 37 some years ago that played a bit stuffy (typical of Bach's). I sent it to him and it came back a different and great playing horn. It may be worth talking to Jim and having your horn evaluated.
Just some thought, Dave
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harryjamesworstnightmare
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:25 am Post subject: |
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I use a C cup on cornet I use a B cup on trumpet. It makes a subtle difference and evens things out when switching. But that's me.
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Yamahaguy
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Ed Kennedy wrote: | | Might be time for a trumpet safari. |
Any time is a good time for a trumpet safari!! 
And wouldn't the conical bore also affect slotting? Admittedly, I'm still getting used to my Olds |
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Andy Del
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Where my quintet rehearses we can try out instruments, mutes, etc (lucky, hey?) In recent weeks there's been a Bach 190 model 43G, and an Olds Mendez Bb.
Both us trumpet members played the Bach and put it down quite fast (the guy plays a Bach 43!). I picked up the Mendez, blew one note and said - home again! Felt great, and was just 'right'. No other way to describe it. The Bach felt tight, tinny etc.
This is due to, of course, me. And me only.
For the OP - you don't like the Bach? Sell it and get something you do like! Don't worry about it - even don't think about it. Just move on.
cheers
Andy
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thecoast
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Location: San Bernardino County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Olds cornet v. Bach Strad trumpet |
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| Gradyfan wrote: | On the comeback trail for a few years now, I've been playing Olds cornets, ranging from the Ambassador to the Super, and I love them all. About a month ago, I purchased a used Bach Strad 180S37 trumpet in beautiful condition.
After practicing on the Bach exclusively for a month, I still don't feel comfortable with it. Today I picked up one of the Olds cornets after practicing with the Bach, and the Olds felt just right immediately, and I sounded a heck of a lot better..... |
You know, I had an Ambassador cornet for a little while. I sold it because it had lost a lot or lacquer and just looked bad. I regret that. I wish I had waited to refurbish it. It was easy to play compared to the trumpet, and I had never played the cornet before. Hm. Wondering if I should maybe pick up an Olds cornet again and see if it was just a fluke or if maybe I'm just a closet cornetist and don't know it. 
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