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Gordon method progress?



 
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jmor56
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Joined: 12 Feb 2021
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:37 am    Post subject: Gordon method progress? Reply with quote

I'm attempting my late life crisis comeback and trying to do it the right way. My strong G/G# days in college came through an Al Hirt model A. 40 years later, I've been working through Gordon with a 3C (trying to build range the right way), and am up to lesson 14, spending at least 2 weeks on each. My high C and D are much stronger, and I love my tone in the middle register, but Eb is a struggle most days and E is next to impossible. It's been that way since lesson 3. Is there a point where I should re-think the method, or is this what I should be content with for now and just keep plugging away?
I know the variables are endless, but any advice would be greatly appreciated before my horn ends up as a lawn ornament.(A little frustrated!)
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deleted_user_7354402
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I am just spit balling here, not having heard or seen you play but here are a couple of thoughts with the Claude Gordon.
1) It can be a great method to build range but using a full tank of air, like Claude emphasizes is critical, if I’m working on Gordon exercises. For me, focusing on a real substantial breath in is really great. Tom Hooten sells a breathing bag for around $20 if you want to work on it. Breathing bag work really helped me align my body and keep things open. When that happens, then I am relaxed. One point of note: When playing, the exhale doesn’t need to be forceful, just strong.
2) Along with air support, it might help to alternate doing the exercise slurred to work on balancing air between notes. (For me, reminding myself to speed the air up on each note really helps keep the air balanced.) when the slur is happening, then I would lightly add my tongue in on the same exercise. One of my lifelong habits that creeps back in from time to time is that I tongue too hard, blowing my aperture open. It might be something like that.
3) Maybe try doing the exercises in a tight cup or harmon mute, or decent practice mute with good slotting. Try to play the exercise with the least amount of effort necessary to make it happen. The added resistance of the mute and/or the feedback in sound, can help your busy find the slot for the next note. The next day try the same thing without the mute... maintaining the relaxed strength.
4) it’s possible you are set up to play your low notes really awesome sounding . Which, can lead to your embouchure being too open to play any higher. Maybe before the exercise starts, play the upper note and get that one sounding good, and then play the exercise set up for the higher note.
5) What else are you working on each day? Balancing Gordon work with something like Rochut Vocalises and some technical etudes like Sigmund Hering can help to attack the challenge you’re working on without the calisthenic mindset.
6) If you want real help with Claude Gordon stuff, Jeff Purtle does lessons online specifically in that. He might be a great resource. I have a friend who worked on it with him and he said that he’s very methodical and disciplined in his approach to working on the exercises.

I hope these thoughts help
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RETrumpet
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Joined: 26 Jan 2021
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My teacher was a student of CG and I had the same issues in my lessons and daily practice for many years. For me, the High F was just impossible. The horn and my lips would just refuse to vibrate, and I had a strong performance-usable high E.

At the same time, I know it's not all about power.... I'm pretty sure I'm stronger than her...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksSqTzXzrDo

A week ago, I ran across Jason Harrelson's videos on what he calls the aperture controlled embouchure. The key takeaway for me in his explanation was that there is a pivot point at which the bottom lip stops vibrating against the top, and the top lip starts to vibrate against the bottom. For me this point was third space C#.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1XRta36WCk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZLnOQ_slUA

As I tried his very simple exercise of tipping the horn and understanding this "pivot" my range opened up almost immediately. Like within the same practice session I had a high F and sometimes a G. You can see my earlier post here about the "Open F-half-sharp" I had been using my bottom lip to do everything and made it to High E! (A testament to the strength-building nature of the CG studies!)

All my CG training was actually a detriment at first because I gotten so physically good at pushing air from my chest. I was overshooting every partial above the staff and losing my place in my scales.

After this last week, I can play above the staff for extended periods with with minimal fatigue. My accuracy is coming back as I relearn to coordinate the airflow in the upper register. And I still have access to all the power that two decades of CG gave me.

My key takeaway from all of this is that range is an exercise in coordination, supported with air pressure, not raw physical power.

Good luck!
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acritzer
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion working on CG material should not be viewed as a way to gain range. Some people may find that as a result and some people may use CG with that goal in mind...but it's not really meant for that.

There's nothing in the method that really allows for "discovery" of the upper register.
That being said. Be patient and possibly spend some time attempting to find notes at a softer volume? Contrary to CG perhaps, but might be more productive.
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jmor56
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for the fast and complete responses! I'll let you know how I make out.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Gordon method progress? Reply with quote

jmor56 wrote:
I'm attempting my late life crisis comeback and trying to do it the right way. ...

-----------------------------
Perhaps you are attempting range improvements too quickly.
I know you are "trying to do it the right way", but be wary of using too much mouthpiece pressure as a short-cut. Excess pressure can inhibit the ability to vibrate your lips, and might prevent adequate air flow.

My guess is that you need to reacquire the 'knack' (skill) for those high notes.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm attempting my late life crisis comeback and trying to do it the right way.


Welcome back to trumpet playing! Doing it the "right" way really involves working with a teacher. There are a number of Claude Gordon students teaching online -- Bruce Haag, Jon Mohan, Jeff Purtle, etc. Get some lessons if at all possible.

Building range and endurance takes time. If you are on SA lesson 14 and are spending two weeks per lesson then you've only been at your comeback for a little over six months. Be patient. You are already seeing good results. If you work with a teacher you'll maximize the likeliness that your progress will continue.

Finally, you might find your return to trumpet playing more satisfying if you link your progress to more than your range.

Good luck, and have fun!
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.purtle.com/teach-myself-or-take-private-lessons

That's something written by a student of mine that is worth a read. Feel free to share the link to the page.

Jeff
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illegalbugler
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Joined: 18 May 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I found most helpful for range with CG:

1. Flexibility exercises practiced systematically and methodically
2. Down part of the CG exercises all the way to double pedal C done consistently
3. Rest, rest, and more rest while playing
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