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SteveDurand Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2015 Posts: 80 Location: Orange County, California
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Establishing Credibility |
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Robert P wrote: |
I'd be curious to hear what happens when you take a crack at this sample from the Michael Haydn concerto in D. Not at all demanding technically, very melodic. Simple enough to work out the fingerings - on a Bb horn the first note is F#.
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Robert P,
This was a little bit harder than I anticipated. I play up in this range a lot in every practice session but the way that this excerpt builds up over a long time really takes it out of you by the time you get to the end. Those last few high notes get pretty thin
This was a good exercise on building endurance in the high register and I think that I will probably incorporate it as part of my daily practice routine.
Thanks for the challenge.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cNfbwxAdKBhwEbYdEtGTXJPKXLhpS3oI/view?usp=sharing
Since I had my recording stuff set up, here's another one just for fun. (not high notes)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NyqD8HF0V5SFrKJE8jyjuo6-BZrbATbw/view?usp=sharing
Steve |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 900 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Establishing Credibility |
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SteveDurand wrote: | Robert P wrote: |
I'd be curious to hear what happens when you take a crack at this sample from the Michael Haydn concerto in D. Not at all demanding technically, very melodic. Simple enough to work out the fingerings - on a Bb horn the first note is F#.
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Robert P,
This was a little bit harder than I anticipated. I play up in this range a lot in every practice session but the way that this excerpt builds up over a long time really takes it out of you by the time you get to the end. Those last few high notes get pretty thin
This was a good exercise on building endurance in the high register and I think that I will probably incorporate it as part of my daily practice routine.
Thanks for the challenge.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cNfbwxAdKBhwEbYdEtGTXJPKXLhpS3oI/view?usp=sharing
Since I had my recording stuff set up, here's another one just for fun. (not high notes)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NyqD8HF0V5SFrKJE8jyjuo6-BZrbATbw/view?usp=sharing
Steve | Applaud you for going for the M. Haydn and that Carnival was fun too, I'ma have to steal that! |
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TrpPro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 1471 Location: Riverview, FL
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:46 am Post subject: |
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BRAVO! _________________ Too Soon Oldt, Too Late Schmart |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Establishing Credibility |
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SteveDurand wrote: |
Robert P,
This was a little bit harder than I anticipated. I play up in this range a lot in every practice session but the way that this excerpt builds up over a long time really takes it out of you by the time you get to the end. Those last few high notes get pretty thin
Steve |
It's definitely tough.
Feel up to another? Can you play from E over high C chromatically to Ab, tongued or slurred *loud*, really fill them up. Or go from high C to Ab if it makes it easier. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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SteveDurand Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2015 Posts: 80 Location: Orange County, California
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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Establishing Credibility |
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Robert P wrote: |
Feel up to another? Can you play from E over high C chromatically to Ab, tongued or slurred *loud*, really fill them up. Or go from high C to Ab if it makes it easier. |
OK, here you go.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W3n_-JAw4QRyxw6wqnTw8q7QJ1l6Mf6U/view?usp=sharing
Not sure how well the volume comes across on this video but my little audio box was on the verge of clipping the whole time.
I'm not really a screamer. I'd rather play it a little quieter and go for nicer tone.
Steve |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Establishing Credibility |
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SteveDurand wrote: | Robert P wrote: |
Feel up to another? Can you play from E over high C chromatically to Ab, tongued or slurred *loud*, really fill them up. Or go from high C to Ab if it makes it easier. |
OK, here you go.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W3n_-JAw4QRyxw6wqnTw8q7QJ1l6Mf6U/view?usp=sharing
Not sure how well the volume comes across on this video but my little audio box was on the verge of clipping the whole time.
I'm not really a screamer. I'd rather play it a little quieter and go for nicer tone.
Steve |
As someone who was also very late to the higher notes party, do you mind if I offer some input?
What I'm seeing is that your volume starts to shut down at about the same place in both videos.
I think the methodology you're using to get those higher notes is working against you. You're depending on lip compression and creating a smaller and smaller route for the air as you go higher, it just happens that your lip shape is conducive to just barely getting the pitches to speak but I don't think you're ever going to make them happen with more gusto the way you're doing it. The notion of "setting your lips to play high" at the very beginning seems misguided to me. I think you're knocking on the door of where you want to be, that you'd benefit from a change in the focus of the muscles and bringing some "systems" more prominently into play.
Here's me in the C - Ab range - the goal was to get louder as I went higher. Trying to describe what I'm feeling and consciously doing:
- I'm not thinking about lip compression particularly, more where the tension is happening - where I'm feeling it is around the mouthpiece and across the muscles, not trying to directly create tension under the mp at all, thinking about blowing *through* the reed, not clamping down and blowing *at* the reed. I know it's orthodoxy but I personally don't think about "corners" at all, I think about "tension everywhere, where it needs to be". I used to take lessons from an old duffer who preached "corners" but focusing on them never did anything but get in the way for me, prevented tension from happening in other places it needed to happen. I regard the corners as just one part of a whole.
I'm also conscious of upper and lower lip intrusion into the space between the teeth and putting the mp into a pocket and grabbing just the right amount of upper lip particularly. I find the mp grabs the upper lip, it more rests on the bottom lip.
- Very much feeling it in my oral cavity and tongue arch - you can hear on at least one of the picked off Ab's that I'm clearing the path a little better and it opens up more.
- Keeping the teeth open - the louder you play on a given pitch the more open they have to be
- The bottom lip is generally driving up, a bit more mp pressure on the top lip than the bottom lip,
- A "hah" or "huh" thrusting of air feeling in my chest. I know my diaphragm is involved but where I feel the blowing effort is in my chest - making that "huh" feeling happen. Would it be accurate to guess that you don't really feel anything like that by the time you're around F or G?
Keep in mind that what you're hearing isn't on finely-honed chops, I've probably picked up the horn two or three times for short sessions in the last week or so - I find I don't have to be in particularly great shape to be able to do this. The sound could be stronger if I was in better shape but the notes are there. I might be playing a tighter mouthpiece than you, not sure - it's an off the shelf Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead. It's not the shallowest piece there is but it's a lot tighter than say a 7C.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SUVttoGmxcOXHirr7D8D27WK578ONzs2/view?usp=sharing
Here's what my chops look like as I'm ascending for what it's worth. Your lips are much thinner than mine so there might not be a lot of correlation. Anyway hope some of this might be useful fodder for consideration.
_________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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SteveDurand Regular Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2015 Posts: 80 Location: Orange County, California
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Robert P,
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try them out and see what happens.
Steve |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1469 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:39 am Post subject: |
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The pictures of above make me think of the BE - "mean old man attitude"!
That is to say 'roll ins'.
Anyhow I look that way ascending when doing roll ins.
_________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2596
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Seymor B Fudd wrote: | The pictures of above make me think of the BE - "mean old man attitude"!
That is to say 'roll ins'.
Anyhow I look that way ascending when doing roll ins.
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You kids got off'a my lawn!!
That's what people mean by "rolling in"?
I wouldn't have described it as rolling, it's just a result of the muscular tension, the basic position of the tissue inside the rim isn't changing, there's a certain amount of tension that's transferred to the part of the vermilion that's acting as the reed. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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