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AJCarter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2007 Posts: 1280 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:22 am Post subject: High school high note Idol |
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Hey everyone,
So when I was in high school Maynard Ferguson was still the first name that pretty much always came up when asking about high range. A couple years ago I referenced Maynard and asked my trumpet students if they knew who he was. They did not.
Who is the Gen Z "Maynard Ferguson"? I think some of my high school kids still know about Bobby Shew and Wayne Bergeron, but I think it ends there. Not even Louis Dowdeswell, who is fantastic and young enough for them to identify with.
Any thoughts? _________________ (List horns here) |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6126 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Very little listening goes on in the school band room. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3276 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:42 am Post subject: |
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For some people, PLAYING music is more appealing and enjoyable than listening to great players performing music that is not interesting to them. And even when listening, how many people pay attention or care about who is performing. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2578
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Back in the day we listened to jazz/big band music so we knew a lot of the high note players and jazz players, too. Now the kids don't listen to jazz/big band music so they don't have any familiarity with the great trumpet players of that genre past or present.
If you mention Louis Armstrong or Miles Davis you might get some acknowledgement from the kids today but there are probably many who are not familiar with even those two players.
I mentioned Dizzy Gillespie to a high school student several years ago and she said she'd never heard of him. Which prompted me to say this:
"If you're planning on being famous don't plan on being famous for long." _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:45 am Post subject: |
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For my high school age son it's Wayne. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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mike ansberry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 1605 Location: Clarksville, Tn
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:55 am Post subject: |
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In my opinion it is important for music teachers to expose kids to all kinds of music. It can be hard to get their attention, but it can be done.
I taught my first music appreciation class in 1977. I did not plan the class, so I get no credit for this. The class was not history based. It was form and analysis based. We would take a popular song and dissect it. Then we would take a classical piece that was based on the same form and dissect it. The students were really into it. This could be done with any style of music.
I was a band director for 33 years. Most of them in middle school. I had music playing as the kids came into class and left class. It was almost always jazz because that is my love. But I should have been more eclectic. I also had an after school jazz band that was open to anyone who wanted to learn to play jazz. My students became acquainted with many of the great jazz artists.
If kids are not exposed to and educated with music of different styles, that music will wither and die. _________________ Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3276 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:55 am Post subject: |
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HERMOKIWI wrote: | Back in the day we listened to jazz/big band music so we knew a lot of the high note players and jazz players, too. ... |
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That describes my situation back in the 60's - I had an FM radio and there was a local (Cleveland) dedicated Jazz station that I listened to a lot - I wasn't interested in the pop rock on AM. Back then FM was still a little exotic, and so was 'Jazz club' music for a suburban teenager. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Croquethed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 609 Location: Oakville, CT
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:18 am Post subject: |
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There was a total disconnect between what I liked to listen to in high school (blues, rock of various stripes) and what I was taught (concert staples in band, Arban all the time for lessons).
I knew Doc, of course, and Al Hirt, and Herb Alpert. Not for high notes, but for all-around prominence. Miles because he was Miles, but I did not listen to him (I found out 45 years later that he and my Mom's best friend from childhood were very tight, small world).
My band director did not like rock and made no bones about saying so, rather than using an example to connect that to the blues/jazz past. Had anyone ever connected the dots between Born Under a Bad Sign and the Memphis Horns, my experience might have been more holistic. Not that Wayne Jackson was known as a high note guy. But range to me then, as now, is secondary to whether the riff is a great hook or not. |
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AJCarter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2007 Posts: 1280 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:07 am Post subject: |
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While I appreciate the insight and everyone listing folks, I'm not asking about the state of music education in the present or for all around players or famous jazzers.
I am specifically asking if there is a high note specialist or lead player today that is widely recognized by players age 13 to let's say 19 years of age.
Cheiden, thanks for letting me know, but your son might be an exception since you frequent the forum and have probably educated him! _________________ (List horns here) |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3276 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:25 am Post subject: |
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wynton marsalis would probably be in the running if the question was
"who is a well known current trumpet player"
asking specifically about 'high note specialists' or 'lead players' might just get confused looks. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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jcstites Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2004 Posts: 755 Location: Lexington, KY
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Billy B wrote: | Very little listening goes on in the school band room. |
This is not true for my middle school band room. Music is playing every day as the students enter the room, we often listen to recordings of their concert music, and during after school sectionals show videos of great players on their instrument. We also post youtube videos and recordings on their google classroom for them to listen to. During online teaching, we play recordings as they enter the zoom, anything from the president's own playing marches to soundtracks to modern jazz.
For the most part, they only know what we expose them to. I'm not aware of a high note tiktok artist, but my middle school students all know people like Maynard, Wayne Bergron, etc. They have access to everything online now, but listen to almost none of it unless we expose them to it.
AJCarter - I'll ask the students tomorrow if there are any tiktok/youtubers that they have seen playing high notes and let you know. They love tiktok...who knows what's on there...hah! |
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mm55 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1410
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:51 am Post subject: |
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I was playing in an ensemble that included several high-school players, about two years ago. They seemed to favor Ferguson and Bergeron for high-note idolatry. Most of them showed up when Bergeron held a clinic at a small local jazz festival. _________________ '75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
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AJCarter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2007 Posts: 1280 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:56 am Post subject: |
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JayKosta wrote: |
asking specifically about 'high note specialists' or 'lead players' might just get confused looks. |
I don't think you're giving them enough credit. While they may not know names of individual people, they definitely pay attention to it. Down here in Indiana kids just talk about the high notes they here in DCI, so they definitely pay attention. _________________ (List horns here) |
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tmaudlin Regular Member
Joined: 27 Aug 2012 Posts: 67 Location: Keizer, Oregon
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:28 am Post subject: |
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in 70-72 Don Ellis was kind of cool with all of the weird time rhythms
In high School we played some of his stuff. Pussy Wiggle Stomp.
We even got a hold a an electric device for trumpet like he played and I
played a few licks on it that was cool and Don Ellis band was very cool... _________________ 1966 Bach 37 star on leadpipe
mouthpiece 10 3/4 EW (vincent bach corp.)
serial number 37351
Coming back after 40 + years |
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soulfire Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 334 Location: NJ
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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I was in high school in the early 2000s- graduated in '06. For us it was still MF. I'll never forget the day our band director had 'Primal Scream' playing on the stereo when I walked in for jazz band practice my freshman year. Absolutely blew me away. I'd never heard any sound like that in my life.
I too am curious who the high note guy is these days. HS kids love their high notes lol. _________________ Chris |
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john4860 Regular Member
Joined: 08 Jun 2017 Posts: 61 Location: Toledo Ohio
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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High School High Notes
In my junior year in High School I saw Maynard and his band with Dennis Noday, Stan Mark, Lynn Nicholson, and Joe Mosello at Bowling Green State University (BGSU) Bowling Green, Ohio shortly after that Don Ellis performed at BGSU this was with his large big band, string quartet and a large rhythm section.
Both groups played a small concert in the afternoon: I can remember Maynard and Lynn Nicholson trading off the trumpet calls in Pocahontas from the MF III album. Don Ellis was playing 4-valve quarter-tone electric-trumpet This was cutting edge stuff that isn't heard about today.
Then they had a clinic for everyone's respective instruments and a full concert later that night. These were held on Saturdays.
I was driving to work this morning thinking that in those days Maynard, Doc Severinsen, Chase and Don Ellis would all release a new album almost every year. I was wondering what trumpet players today's high schoolers would know about? _________________ Staying relaxed is 90% of trumpet playing |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2578
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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AJCarter wrote: | I am specifically asking if there is a high note specialist or lead player today that is widely recognized by players age 13 to let's say 19 years of age. |
If the criteria is "widely recognized" then in my experience the answer is "no." _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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AJCarter wrote: | Cheiden, thanks for letting me know, but your son might be an exception since you frequent the forum and have probably educated him! |
No doubt. I was carrying my son and some of his band friends in the car to an event and put on the Kubis recording of "Oh Holy Night". Needless to say, it got their attention. Now they all know who Wayne Bergeron is. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2641 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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I'll bite
I've been a band director for 25 years and before that i taught privately for ten years, 50 kids a week. I have kids that are interested in music, not sure why, but i always though music was interesting. Maybe it still is.
i would say they know louis dowdeswell, and wayne bergeron, and like someone else said, they know where the high notes are in DCI shows from different years etc. The DCI shows are something they can see themselves doing, cuz its people very close to their own age.
I get bummed out when i hear people bagging on the "current" crop of kids. Kids have not changed one bit since the 70's when i started paying attention. Well, actually one thing has changed a lot. The level of jazz playing (improvising) has gone massively up since youtube came along. _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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bike&ed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Some of the recent DCI heroes have their own channels now, and they can get decent amounts of views. Igor Fedorov/TrumpetGains is a good example. |
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