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Another older man looking for a horn.


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awajazz
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Joined: 28 Feb 2021
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Location: Chiba, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:13 pm    Post subject: Another older man looking for a horn. Reply with quote

Greetings,

I am new to this forum and I have been lurking about for the past few days.

I am one of those who wants to return to the trumpet after a long hiatus (about 50 years).

I am in the market for a good, used trumpet, something that will most likely outlast me and keep a resale value.

I am a long term resident of Japan so, I would prefer to shop within Japan. I am also leaning towards buying from a shop as they would carry a warrantee.

I have read a lot about Yamahas, Bachs and just recently, Besson/Kanstul, if I got that brand name correct.

I am sure that there are as many opinions as members here and I suspect that once I reach a certain price range ~$1,000 or more, I should be able to find a nice horn.

As a longer term jazz-oriented piano player, I would like a horn that will sound well in this genre. I personally am not looking for nose-bleed high notes, but more of a mellower, single malt whisky vocal-type sound, if that makes sense.

A few questions.

Is it true that Bach had off-years in production. If so, which years should I avoid?

What is the difference between the Yamaha 6335 series vs the 8335 series?

I have heard a comparison of the Besson vs Yamaha and I seem to like the Besson better. Anyone have experience of the two?

Are there specific concerns for each horn?

Thanks in advance.

Bill
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Goby
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best Bach trumpets have 5 digit serial numbers or lower (under 100,000). These horns would have been built while Vincent Bach was still alive and overseeing production. Following Bach’s death in 1977, a variety of changes were implemented one by one to cut the cost of production while making a small sacrifice to performance. They dropped the steel wire in the bell bead, eliminated nickel-silver trim, went to a 1-piece valve block, switched to plastic valve guides, switched from traditional hand hammered bells to stamped blanks that were brazed together, and ramped up their production massively. In the early 2000’s (around serial number 600,000) there was a strike at the Bach factory, and they fired all the craftsmen and tried to replace them with less skilled builders. Bach trumpets from this period are notoriously bad. Some of the newer horns made today are quite good, especially the 190 series instruments, although these might be a bit out of your budget.


Yamaha 6335 series predates the 8335 series. There are a few iterations within each line, and it seems the newer ones are always better, although the 6335 HGS is known for being excellent, and possibly better than the first generation Xeno. Both 6335 and 8335 are considered professional-grade, and Yamaha quality is quite consistent.


Besson has 3 periods of production. The original Besson trumpets were made in France and England by the F. Besson company. Following WWII, production was entirely in England, as the french factory was destroyed. In the late 1970’s and early 1980’s the parent company of F. Besson wanted to revive the brand, so they had Kanstul build faithful replicas of the original french instruments, with a few modernisations here and there. Eventually, Kanstul got dropped from their contract by Boosey and Hawkes (the owners of the F Besson brand), and B&H sourced production elsewhere.

Most French and English Bessons have been played to death, so I would not advise you to purchase one. The English made horns post-WWII were never considered to be on the same level as the pre-war French instruments, although some of this might be related to the fact that bad playing instruments would have been turned into bullets in WWII. Kanstul Bessons were quite good in their day, but in 2021, a lot of them have red rot, worn valves, or general wear-and-tear that might not make them attractive to you. If you find one in good condition, you could probably acquire it for less than your current budget. A note of warning, those horns are lightweight and were popular with lead players and studio musicians. A lot of famous jazz musicians of the 50’s and 60’s used French Besson trumpets, Donald Byrd, Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, Miles Davis, Kenny Dorham, and many more. Ultimately, you will sound like you on any horn, so if you play with a beautiful, dark sound, that’s what you’ll get out of any instrument.

Have you considered trying a cornet? They’re generally a little more mellow than a trumpet, and can also be had for cheaper prices. It seems like that would be right up your alley for small group music.

For best resale value, buy something pre-owned. Yamaha and Bach are solid candidates if you’re looking to get your money back. Kanstul prices seem to be on a downward trend, but this might change in a few years.
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awajazz
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your informative answer. I am finding a lot of information on this forum and I think that I can piece together a decent purchase plan.

Goby wrote:
The best Bach trumpets have 5 digit serial numbers or lower (under 100,000).


This is good to know. Japan used market has a lot of Bach trumpets. I will need to carefully check the serial numbers.

Goby wrote:
Some of the newer horns made today are quite good, especially the 190 series instruments, although these might be a bit out of your budget.

Yamaha 6335 series predates the 8335 series. There are a few iterations within each line, and it seems the newer ones are always better, although the 6335 HGS is known for being excellent, and possibly better than the first generation Xeno. Both 6335 and 8335 are considered professional-grade, and Yamaha quality is quite consistent.


There are a lot of 6335 and 8335 for sale here. It seems that the 6335 HGS is selling for more than the 8335 models.

Goby wrote:
Besson has 3 periods of production.


I am seeing a few Kanstul Meha models around my budget.

Goby wrote:
Ultimately, you will sound like you on any horn, so if you play with a beautiful, dark sound, that’s what you’ll get out of any instrument.


So I am reading and understanding.

Goby wrote:
Have you considered trying a cornet? They’re generally a little more mellow than a trumpet, and can also be had for cheaper prices. It seems like that would be right up your alley for small group music.


No, I haven't and I will now check into it.

Goby wrote:
For best resale value, buy something pre-owned. Yamaha and Bach are solid candidates if you’re looking to get your money back. Kanstul prices seem to be on a downward trend, but this might change in a few years.


Thanks again. This is good information to work with.

Bill
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scottfsmith
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not in Japan but my impression is the used Yamaha prices are very good there. Used horns are not as popular in Japan, new horns are preferred. So the prices are relatively cheaper. And Yamaha is the local brand so they are much more common (read less in demand and cheaper) than Bachs.

I bought a used Xeno on eBay from Ishibashi Music, a big chain there, and the horn was very good and the staff were excellent.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: Another older man looking for a horn. Reply with quote

awajazz wrote:

...
As a longer term jazz-oriented piano player, I would like a horn that will sound well in this genre. I personally am not looking for nose-bleed high notes, but more of a mellower, single malt whisky vocal-type sound, if that makes sense.
...

------------------------------
The 'sound' of the instrument might be a significant concern - especially if your goal is a 'mellow' sound suitable for playing in a small 'club type' environment.

Most trumpets will sound like - trumpets, fairly bright. YES, there are long lists of players who are able to make smooth and mellow sounds, but they are doing that in spite of their playing a trumpet, not because of it.

A cornet or even a flugel horn might be more suitable if you want to avoid the 'trumpet sound'.

For general 'multi-purpose' playing, a trumpet is good, but it might not have the best sound for a specific usage.
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Shawnino
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple +1s here:

+1 to SFS about buying used from Japanese retailers with confidence. New-to-used price hits seem to be particularly aggressive in Japan, and I've gotten excellent horns, cameras and watches from Japan with barely a scratch on them, or less, at good discount.

+1 to JK that a cornet, or even a fluegel, may better suit your sound. The Yamaha 631 fluegel is the one "everybody" tries to copy/remake as a doubler. I might start looking there.


And one other bit:

As much as the right horn will help mellow your sound, the right mouthpiece is equally important. if you're headed strictly for mellow, small group jazz, don't mess around, get a fluegel, job done. But if a more versatile tool might help someday, look for an all-around instrument and pick up a second or third mouthpiece that helps you get closer to different sounds.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: Another older man looking for a horn. Reply with quote

awajazz wrote:
Is it true that Bach had off-years in production. If so, which years should I avoid?


Yes. the 1990s up until 2009 saw considerable warranty claims and general bad reviews posted due to manufacturing defects. If you visit the Bach plant today, the scrap and rework carts are everywhere and they have made a sizeable investment on top of a commitment, to assure quality. I personally feel the Bachs of today are some of the best ever made. One thing to remember though is that Bach deliberately induces some variation in those elements that make a horn fit one person better than another (Yamaha aims for a consistency every time focusing on what appeals to the most average or typical player), thus play-testing a Bach is essential, but may find you the "perfect" horn.

awajazz wrote:
What is the difference between the Yamaha 6335 series vs the 8335 series?


The 8335 series are intended as improvement on the 6335s. Yamaha has closely monitored what details most appeal to the most players, and the 8335 was a dialing-in on those preferences. There are professionals still playing 6-series instruments in very prominent ensembles however, so it really comes down to which fits you better.

awajazz wrote:
I have heard a comparison of the Besson vs Yamaha and I seem to like the Besson better. Anyone have experience of the two?


First, unless it was the same player, the comparison is meaningless.

I own a pre-war Besson, a couple Kanstuls, and several Yamahas. But within brands, there is variation in horn design, so you cannot really compare brands. You have to look to the spectrum, ease of play, strength of centering, inertia, efficiency, and other characteristics and then differentiate by model. As far as the brand, all are serious artist-level brands.

awajazz wrote:
As a longer term jazz-oriented piano player, I would like a horn that will sound well in this genre. I personally am not looking for nose-bleed high notes, but more of a mellower, single malt whisky vocal-type sound, if that makes sense.


You may want to broaden your search. It sounds like you might be a good candidate for a Callet Jazz, an Austin Winds Stage 470LT, a Calicchio 3/9 Copper Solo, or an old (or new Martin Brasswind) Committee. A little more middle of the road are the Bach LR180-72s, but I would suggest the BAC Paseo Z72 as a better alternative in that form, the Kanstul Besson Meha, the Wild Thing, or a Schilke B6.

The reason I say this is that the Bessons are typically very bright, The Yamahas you listed are Bach-37 bell instruments - more all-around than warm jazz in sound, and the Bach 43, 37, 25 and 1B are all also more to that side of the spectrum should those be within your meaning of "Bach"
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cgaiii
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you are in Chiba, take a trip to Tokyo. In Ochanomizu there are a number of used brass shops. You can play horns to your heart's delight. You can perhaps negotiate some kind of warranty, but not much. You can find other shops with used horns in Shibuya, Shinjuku and elsewhere and try horns. Japan is the best place I know of for shopping for used horns. You can find some really good ones at reasonable prices. It is a great place to buy. And yes, there are good prices on Yamahas but also even on US made horns. The great thing is being able to try horns. Not sure how that will be now, but I am sure something can be worked out.
If you need specific shops and locations, please PM me and I will give them to you. If others are interested, I can post them here.
I always take a horn shopping day whenever I am in Japan. Looking forward to being able to go again.
Example: I got the Schilke X3L in my signature quite inexpensively in a shop in Tokyo. The valves were not even broken in -- like new. I guess someone had bought a really nice horn for a child or something. Hardly played, stored for many years and then consigned.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: Another older man looking for a horn. Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
... I personally feel the Bachs of today are some of the best ever made. One thing to remember though is that Bach deliberately induces some variation in those elements that make a horn fit one person better than another (Yamaha aims for a consistency every time focusing on what appeals to the most average or typical player), thus play-testing a Bach is essential, but may find you the "perfect" horn. ...

------------------------------------
I assume that your assertion that Bach 'deliberately' induces some variation, is a personal belief of yours. I doubt that Bach would agree with you that variations are intentional. Yes 'minor variations' are inevitable due to the way horns are built, but that should not require a Bach-safari to find a good NEW one.
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KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd recommend a standard Bach with a 72 bell and 25 leadpipe. That's the popular Bach model that plays on the warmer side.

Any Yamaha would be a reliable choice.

The choice between the two will come down largely to personal preference.

Sticking with a Bach or Yamaha C cup mouthpiece should be a reasonable place to start and shouldn't be overly bright sounding.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: Another older man looking for a horn. Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
OldSchoolEuph wrote:
... I personally feel the Bachs of today are some of the best ever made. One thing to remember though is that Bach deliberately induces some variation in those elements that make a horn fit one person better than another (Yamaha aims for a consistency every time focusing on what appeals to the most average or typical player), thus play-testing a Bach is essential, but may find you the "perfect" horn. ...

------------------------------------
I assume that your assertion that Bach 'deliberately' induces some variation, is a personal belief of yours. I doubt that Bach would agree with you that variations are intentional. Yes 'minor variations' are inevitable due to the way horns are built, but that should not require a Bach-safari to find a good NEW one.


Bach deliberately designs the fabrication process to include some hand work, specifically at those steps in the process where variation - and we are talking minor variation, such as finish buffing, valve final fit, brace alignment, etc. - will alter the playing characteristics noticed by a more advanced player.

All of these horns are "good". So it is not a matter of finding a good one. It s a matter of finding one that fits you best.

To help in that regard, Bach has the artist-select program where horns are picked out by that artist that meet his or her particular tastes. If your desired characteristics match those of an artist you know of, you can then seek out a horn that artist has already segregated from the rest.

As for my personal belief, I suppose so. But my belief is formed in conversations and supporting observations at the plant with Tedd and Roy and others, so . . . . .
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m partial to cheiden’s advice RE the Bach 72. Pair it with one of Steve Dillard’s Signature Jazz 3C mouthpieces and you’ve got a great combination for jazz, sweet or savory.

You’ll find details here: horntrader.com
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Another older man looking for a horn. Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:

Bach deliberately designs the fabrication process to include some hand work, specifically at those steps in the process where variation - and we are talking minor variation, such as finish buffing, valve final fit, brace alignment, etc. - will alter the playing characteristics noticed by a more advanced player.

All of these horns are "good". So it is not a matter of finding a good one. It s a matter of finding one that fits you best. ...

---------------------------
Thanks for the additional information.
From what you've said above, it seems that the intent of the hand work is to achieve an overall better result for each of the instruments, and not simply to make each one have its own variations.
I doubt that the people doing the hand work actually have a goal of making each horn sound a little different than each other. Unless the horn is intended to meet some criteria of the 'Artist selected' versions.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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HERMOKIWI
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Another older man looking for a horn. Reply with quote

awajazz wrote:
Is it true that Bach had off-years in production. If so, which years should I avoid?


I doubt that there is anyone anywhere who has enough personal experience with playing enough horns from any particular Bach production year to speak authoritatively about the entire production or any definable portion of that production as being definitively "bad" or "good" or something in between.

People just repeat things they've heard. If things are repeated enough people start assuming those things are true. The idea that there are a lot of "bad" Bach Strads and that you have to play test a lot of Bach Strads before you find a "good" one is one of the things that gets repeated a lot. People hear it and just assume it must be true.

I have four Bach Strads: A Mt. Vernon Model 37 (5 digit serial number), a Mt. Vernon Model 43 (5 digit serial number), an Elkhart Model 72* with metal valve guides (6 digit serial number) and an Elkhart Model 25 with plastic valve guides (6 digit serial number). They all play great. In fact, I've never played a "bad" Bach Strad. They all play great and they all play in tune if I play great and I play in tune.

The OP has laid off for 50 years and isn't demanding anything extraordinary from his horn. Any decent trumpet in good working condition will serve his purposes 100%. He doesn't need to over-analyze this. He'll sound essentially the same on an Olds Ambassador as he'll sound on a Monette. Either horn will work for him.

So my advice to the OP is to play test some horns and choose one that is in good working condition that plays and sounds good to you. In the history of the trumpet there are probably millions of horns that will meet that description. Once you identify a horn in good working condition that plays and sounds good to you you're at the point of extremely diminishing returns.
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Vin DiBona
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You live in Japan. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Yamaha makes superb trumpets and there are some made for the Japanese market. You should be able to find many different Yamaha models to try.
As a new player, you won't know the difference between a Bach or other high quality horn. Simply put, you will not have a mature sound for some time.
I say Yamaha is your best bet.
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awajazz
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings,

I go to bed and wake up to this many comments, opinions, and insights, especially from the Heavyweight Members. Many thanks, I am grateful for all this. There is a lot to take in.

Re: Sound

I might have not articulated properly my ideas about the sound. Most of the 'mellow' stuff I have heard is from trumpet players and upon reflection, I would state that I would like to achieve that sound. If trumpet players can make that sound, there is a possibility I can as well (with time, practice, etc.)

My interest is in the technical design aspects of the horn; material, bore, bell, and mouthpiece which would help, in a way, to achieve that sound. The last time I played was when I was very young and participated in marching bands, not where my interest is today.

Re: Selection

I am planning a trip into Tokyo to check in on used trumpets. So far, all of my research has been on line and if there is anything I have learned about buying used stuff (and real estate) is that the stuff being sold on line are the ones that have not yet been sold in the stores.

scottfsmith wrote:
I'm not in Japan but my impression is the used Yamaha prices are very good there. Used horns are not as popular in Japan, new horns are preferred. So the prices are relatively cheaper. And Yamaha is the local brand so they are much more common (read less in demand and cheaper) than Bachs.

I bought a used Xeno on eBay from Ishibashi Music, a big chain there, and the horn was very good and the staff were excellent.


Yes, looking closely at Yamaha as there will most likey not be a shortage of technicians or parts in case I need maintenace or repairs. However, if the market is favorable, I will not shy away from other models if they are within a price point.

cgaiii wrote:
Since you are in Chiba, take a trip to Tokyo. In Ochanomizu there are a number of used brass shops.


Ochanomizu is old stomping grounds, but not for musical interests, at that time . That is the 'mecca' of used instruments in Tokyo.
I lived in Tokyo for 20 years, moved to Chiba 10 years ago. I will eventually make a day trip there.

cgaiii wrote:
If you need specific shops and locations, please PM me and I will give them to you. If others are interested, I can post them here.
I always take a horn shopping day whenever I am in Japan. Looking forward to being able to go again.
Example: I got the Schilke X3L in my signature quite inexpensively in a shop in Tokyo. The valves were not even broken in -- like new. I guess someone had bought a really nice horn for a child or something. Hardly played, stored for many years and then consigned.


Well, this is my take. This happened in the bubble years. Parents would buy an upright piano for their child. They play for a few years, perform in a few recitals, and lose interest. Used pianos are still reasonably priced here, I suspect the same for brass in Japan. Combine that and the decline in population, this can very well be a buyers' market.
I will PM you later, re: shops.

OldSchoolEuph wrote:

The 8335 series are intended as improvement on the 6335s. Yamaha has closely monitored what details most appeal to the most players, and the 8335 was a dialing-in on those preferences. There are professionals still playing 6-series instruments in very prominent ensembles however, so it really comes down to which fits you better.


Interesting as I am having a hard time finding used 6335, but I am seeing a lot of used 8335 for sale on line.

HERMOKIWI wrote:

The OP has laid off for 50 years and isn't demanding anything extraordinary from his horn. Any decent trumpet in good working condition will serve his purposes 100%. He doesn't need to over-analyze this. He'll sound essentially the same on an Olds Ambassador as he'll sound on a Monette. Either horn will work for him.


Over-analyse. This comes from years of architectural training. My intent is to research as much as I can and enter the market being aware of lemons and over-priced items. I am confident that I can walk away with a decent horn at a decent price. With the information I have received here I am way ahead from where I was a few days ago.

Thanks all for your input. I will let you know how I fare when I go shopping.

Bill
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello awajazz and welcome to the forums,
I am going to come at this somewhat differently than others. I don't see how you are going to pick a horn that fits you personally if you have not played in 50 years. You are going to feel differently about horns and notice things about them after six months or so of playing, whereas now, you would not notice differences in slotting, sound, intonation, etc. So I would be sure to get something that could be sold in 6 months or a year with little loss. In fact, I would recommend that you get a decent student horn (that's what you are now, a student, right?) and use that for a while. Then, from time to time, or when you feel ready, go shopping for a better horn. At that point you will be a much more perceptive consumer.

As far as used horns, any of the Bach entry level horns would work, a King 601, an Old Ambassador in good shape, various others you could research. I don't know how you could be certain that this effort will be something that you will want to continue at this point. Some folks make a "comeback" and then decide it is too much trouble or they have no talent for it, and quit. Give yourself some time to decide what you want, what feels good to you and where you are going.
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oljackboy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go and play a bunch of horns. Even after laying off the trumpet for fifty years,
be sensitive to your own feelings. If you play a good number of quality trumpets, the one you wind up with will find you. And you'll know it when you play it. You cannot go wrong with a pro-level Yamaha.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

awajazz wrote:
...
I might have not articulated properly my ideas about the sound. Most of the 'mellow' stuff I have heard is from trumpet players and upon reflection, I would state that I would like to achieve that sound. If trumpet players can make that sound, there is a possibility I can as well (with time, practice, etc.)

My interest is in the technical design aspects of the horn; material, bore, bell, and mouthpiece which would help, in a way, to achieve that sound. ...

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A trumpet certainly can be played 'mellow' - as long as that is the goal of the player, and NOT striving for overly high notes.

As far as 'technical concerns', I recommend not worrying about them at this point - buy a name brand 'beginner level' trumpet such as Yamaha 2335, King 600, Bach TR300, etc. Just make sure it is in good working condition - valves, slides, water keys, no missing parts, no bad dents.
That level of instrument will be very appropriate for many years. And it would be a good 'backup instrument' if you later buy something additional.

The only piece of equipment that needs immediate analysis is the mouthpiece. The main considerations are that it fits your lips and teeth, and that it is designed for 'general purpose' playing - I recommend something similar in description to a Bach 7C (or with a slightly deeper cup). The mouthpiece that comes with the horn might be fine, and no need for additional searching or shopping.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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S Koons
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Joined: 18 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

royjohn wrote:
Hello awajazz and welcome to the forums,
I am going to come at this somewhat differently than others. I don't see how you are going to pick a horn that fits you personally if you have not played in 50 years. You are going to feel differently about horns and notice things about them after six months or so of playing, whereas now, you would not notice differences in slotting, sound, intonation, etc. So I would be sure to get something that could be sold in 6 months or a year with little loss. In fact, I would recommend that you get a decent student horn (that's what you are now, a student, right?) and use that for a while. Then, from time to time, or when you feel ready, go shopping for a better horn. At that point you will be a much more perceptive consumer.

As far as used horns, any of the Bach entry level horns would work, a King 601, an Old Ambassador in good shape, various others you could research. I don't know how you could be certain that this effort will be something that you will want to continue at this point. Some folks make a "comeback" and then decide it is too much trouble or they have no talent for it, and quit. Give yourself some time to decide what you want, what feels good to you and where you are going.


I agree about the horns, but have a little different perspective on the reason. Don't think of the next horn as your last. When you start your comeback you won't have the range, endurance or flexibility (or anything else) that you will have after you play for a while. So you won't feel small differences in the horns. When I was in high school and college, I could feel small differences and had distinct preferences, but no budget. Now, I have the budget, but not the feel, because I strain on any horn.

Still I did go through a selection process. When I started my comeback I had my two old horns in the closet (a King Liberty and an Olds Super). I played them, preferring the Olds, and tried others in stores, since I was never an Olds enthusiast. When I found a used "pro" horn that I liked, a Getzen Canadian Brass, at a modest price, I bought it and sold the King and the Olds. Since then, my playing and sound have improved, and I've tried other trumpets. But I haven't developed to the point that I can detect the "magic" that a few trumpets gave me long ago. While I've found some horns that seemed slightly better for me than the Canadian Brass, none have justified the significant extra expense. I need to upgrade my playing before upgrading the trumpet.

When considering mouthpieces, don't ignore endurance. I'm drawn to the sound of deeper cups, but they take a toll on my endurance. So I need to compromise on an "easier" mouthpiece that allows me to practice and play longer. You can't advance if your practice sessions are super short. And even if you sound slightly better to start, you won't sound good at all at the end of a performance if you've blown out your lip.

-SK
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