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Jeff_Purtle
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Location: Greenville, South Carolina
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JayKosta
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 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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at 1:36:50 into the video there's some mention about the physics of lip vibration, and buzzing. Also tongue level and vowel usage.
Discussion about teaching, understanding, explaining, learning, etc.
I'm sure there is much more earlier, but I just happening to jump to the end and listened from there ...
edit: I think the video about 'trumpet physics' is here -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVs2G60-ilo
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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kalijah
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Its really not that good of an explanation because he is doing a demonstration with a thermal energy phenomenon and open pipe. It doesn't really translate well to explain how the trumpet actually works with "pulsing" lip aperture other than demonstrating a standing wave exists. The lips are an essential part of the system. The state of the lips determine the frequency that is played, that is, which harmonic mode is the fundamental of the tone played. |
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Jeff_Purtle
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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I thought I set-up the context at the start of our session that should be on that video. I didn't edit anything out besides our initial sound check at the beginning.
Prior to this session you have to understand that all four of those guys have studied with me from as far back as 2009. In preparation for our session we all watched all 12 months of videos of Claude's pedagogy classes that were from 90 minutes to 2 hours each. We also recently reviewed 17 years of practice routines from one of Claude's dedicated students. I gave a very general outline of what we were maybe going to talk about and we just had a group discussion. To get the context you need to listen to the video from the beginning and realize that what you mention is David Bertie's side comment just to bounce some ideas around for a future chat like this.
What I hope people get from this is not a discussion about "theory" but about the benefit of systematically working through this wealth of material and how ideas about playing changed as they learned through practicing.
We all had a great time and I hope others can pickup on that too.
Jeff
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Jeff Purtle
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kalijah
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Interesting it was mentioned that Phil Smith finds buzzing detrimental. I would certainly agree. I find that for most, at best, buzzing is a poor substitute for practice. And I think it is absolutely counterproductive for a beginner. |
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Crazy Finn
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | | Interesting it was mentioned that Phil Smith finds buzzing detrimental. I would certainly agree. I find that for most, at best, buzzing is a poor substitute for practice. And I think it is absolutely counterproductive for a beginner. |
Why?
I’m not a big believer in buzzing, but I both used it and not used it in teaching beginners and have never found any benefit to not using it to a limited degree. If nothing else, it helps me - the teacher - better identify what’s going with a student.
I used it a fair amount myself for a time and only noticed positives doing some Thompson like exercises.
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Jeff_Purtle
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2022 1:23 am Post subject: |
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There obviously are some great players that advocate buzzing but as mentioned our group was talking a little about their experiences stopping it personally and dealing with their own students. Claude used to say, “you play the trumpet and not a mouthpiece. Practice your trumpet!” I wrote the Preface for one of David Bertie’s new books to try to state more why flexibility studies on the trumpet are so valuable. My point is not that it doesn’t feel the same but that it CAN’T feel the same even with ANY device attached to the mouthpiece. By taking the mouthpiece out of the horn or the tuning slide out to buzz it has shortened the length of tubing and that experience of feeling the resonance and harmonics is all changed.
Here’s the full text of that Preface.
https://www.purtle.com/what-is-systematic-practice
Jeff
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Jeff Purtle
Trumpet Lessons Online since 2004, teaching since 1983
MultiTouch book on Claude Gordon
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Skype: jeff_purtle |
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JayKosta
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Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | | ... I’m not a big believer in buzzing, but I both used it and not used it in teaching beginners and have never found any benefit to not using it to a limited degree. If nothing else, it helps me - the teacher - better identify what’s going with a student. ... |
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Mouthpiece (and leadpipe) buzzing / playing can be useful as an introduction in several ways -
- reduces the 'complexity' of holding and playing the complete trumpet.
- clarify the production of lip vibrations and not just 'blowing through'.
- establish mouthpiece position on lips, and facial posture.
- associate 'produced pitch' with lip and tongue changes.
The 'danger' is if a player attempts playing and forces the actions needed to create an actual buzz.
Buzzing can be a metaphor for the process of playing.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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EricV
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Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Jeff,
Interesting stuff, it would be cool to be able to watch those pedagogy classes of Claudes, any plans to put them on your site?
EricV
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