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What Material to Practice


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OrangeDreamsicle
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:52 am    Post subject: What Material to Practice Reply with quote

My teacher has me mostly learning etudes to go over during our lessons, but I don't know what else to fill my practice time with besides the given etudes. Should I practice things like Schlossbergs, Arban, Clarkes (basically exercises from method books) and such, or should I practice other repertoire and etudes?

Edit: First post here, so sorry if this post would be better suited to another forum.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes there is much more to do than just the 'list of new things'.

A considerable amount of time should be devoted to the fundamentals - such as long tones (for tone, stability, endurance, etc.), intervals, articulations, rhythms, scales (for fingering and better reading).
All of those things are part of the 'daily training' - and they establish and maintain the foundation strengths that are needed.

The 'new etudes' are to provide additional skills, but they don't replace the need for the 'daily training'.

Certainly more can be added by playing material that you enjoy.

check the video from here - https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1622011#1622011
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you bothered to ask your teacher why you are only doing Etudes?

It may be you are doing enough warming up and setting up, and they wish you to work on something else...

Cheers

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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best answer is to listen to your teacher. If you come to distrust your teacher or their method then you should ask frank questions. And if you are ultimately dissatisfied with your progress then seek a new teacher. Not every teacher works best for every student.

FWIW I can't imagine a teacher who would only use etudes and no other drills.
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theslawdawg
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: What Material to Practice Reply with quote

OrangeDreamsicle wrote:
My teacher has me mostly learning etudes to go over during our lessons, but I don't know what else to fill my practice time with besides the given etudes. Should I practice things like Schlossbergs, Arban, Clarkes (basically exercises from method books) and such, or should I practice other repertoire and etudes?

Edit: First post here, so sorry if this post would be better suited to another forum.


Ask your teacher this:

"Yo, Teach! You have me mostly learning etudes to go over during our lessons, but I don't know what else to fill my practice time with besides the given etudes. Should I practice things like Schlossbergs, Arban, Clarkes (basically exercises from method books) and such, or should I practice other repertoire and etudes?"
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Last edited by theslawdawg on Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
FWIW I can't imagine a teacher who would only use etudes and no other drills.


I studied with a great teacher in college who only had me work on etudes and recital rep. I wasn’t a particularly well-developed or knowledgeable player coming in, but he gave me the space to figure out my fundamentals while continually giving me new applied fundamental challenges. The attitude seemed to be, long as you can manage the increasing load of new etudes, you’re probably doing the fundamentals right. It was exactly what I needed at that time.

For the right player at the right time, I think it’s a great way to go. Other times, it’s good to teach a player how to practice long tones.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the melodic stuff in the back of the Arban’s book is a good change of pace from etudes. Just make sure you’ve already done justice to what your teacher wants before looking at other things to fill your practice time.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
Yes there is much more to do than just the 'list of new things'. ...

-------------------------------
And 'back in the day' my teachers just assigned a handful of new exercises, etudes, and melodies for the next lesson.

I didn't know about (and wasn't very motivated) about the need to ALSO do practice of 'daily fundamentals'. So I just practiced the new stuff and went on lesson by lesson, not making much progress and becoming an adequate school player - but not particularly good.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Add me to the list of "discuss this with your teacher." Say that you aren't sure what you should be practicing aside from the assigned etudes, and ask for advice on what else to practice, and how to practice it. Good luck!
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who answers with anything other than " ask your teacher" is to be avoided.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
Anyone who answers with anything other than " ask your teacher" is to be avoided.


This. ☝️

(edit: I just noticed the OP is a new person here, and the following is NOT meant as an unfriendly criticism, jut an observation. Sometimes when I go back and read things I’ve written here I realize that they might discourage participation from new members, that’s NOT MY INTENT).

So with that being said:

Sometimes internet forums are used as substitutes for what we usually know we should do, which in this case is ASK THE GUY / LADY TEACHING YOU.

I teach lessons, all middle school at this particular time, and absolutely always welcome students’ questions, especially in areas like this.

Brad
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abontrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I agree with the "ask your teacher" sentiments, something that is often not talked about is the reason for fundamentals, etudes, etc.

What we are trying to do is get our abilities to the level where we can execute our musical desires/intentions with relative ease. What that means is that we have to have a clear goal of what we want to achieve on the trumpet. So, an easy answer is listening; listening to a lot of music and great musicians. Often we try to fill our time with more practice, but that's really only half of the equation.

Once we have a goal, the path to achieve that goal becomes much clearer. Without a goal you can play a lot of stuff (fundamentals) in a way that will never serve your musical goals.

https://www.dansr.com/wick/resources/preparing-to-become-a-professional-musician-part-one

Another thing not often talked about is that another barrier in progressing rapidly is the ability to recognize patterns (rhythmic and note patterns). So just spend time looking at music and working through the rhythmic patterns and melodic patterns without playing them. You can finger, you can clap, etc.

Those two things definitely won't harm your progression.

A final thing is, let the music be your teacher. If the etude has something outside of your ability level, then you should look for exercises or design exercises to improve that ability. That's why etudes can be a powerful tool.

Enjoy!
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:50 am    Post subject: Re: What Material to Practice Reply with quote

OrangeDreamsicle wrote:
My teacher has me mostly learning etudes to go over during our lessons, but I don't know what else to fill my practice time with besides the given etudes. Should I practice things like Schlossbergs, Arban, Clarkes (basically exercises from method books) and such, or should I practice other repertoire and etudes?

Edit: First post here, so sorry if this post would be better suited to another forum.


You should practice exactly what your teacher assigns.
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AJCarter
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: What Material to Practice Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
OrangeDreamsicle wrote:
My teacher has me mostly learning etudes to go over during our lessons, but I don't know what else to fill my practice time with besides the given etudes. Should I practice things like Schlossbergs, Arban, Clarkes (basically exercises from method books) and such, or should I practice other repertoire and etudes?

Edit: First post here, so sorry if this post would be better suited to another forum.


You should practice exactly what your teacher assigns.


Not always the case. In graduate school (which yes, I understand is different than middle school or high school), we were expected to practice fundamentals based upon weaknesses and or build those skills needed to perform etudes or rep we were assigned. He would never tell us to go out and practice Arban et al. I have been asking most of my students to think more critically in this fashion as of late and it has been yielding great results.

But to round back; Yes, the answer is to "ask your teacher". But how and what you ask is almost more important than asking the question itself. I would ask if there are any fundamental skills that you should be working to improve, or what additional materials can you use to supplement the etudes you are working on.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: What Material to Practice Reply with quote

AJCarter wrote:
... I would ask if there are any fundamental skills that you should be working to improve, or what additional materials can you use to supplement the etudes you are working on.

--------------------------
Unless the teacher is willing to go into devising a detailed list of additional items to practice, the short answer would be -
1) Should be? - YES
2) What? - All of stuff you've already been through that is difficult and which is related to the current etudes. Plus the 'basic fundamentals'.

If the earlier related material is still difficult, then it deserves to be practiced - and that practice should enhance the ability to learn new material.
Basic Fundamentals - as necessary to maintain good playing foundation.
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AJCarter
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: What Material to Practice Reply with quote

JayKosta wrote:
AJCarter wrote:
... I would ask if there are any fundamental skills that you should be working to improve, or what additional materials can you use to supplement the etudes you are working on.

--------------------------


If the earlier related material is still difficult, then it deserves to be practiced - and that practice should enhance the ability to learn new material.
Basic Fundamentals - as necessary to maintain good playing foundation.


I think we are agreeing on the first point however, I never thought this would have to be said in a pedagogy or fundamentals forum but here goes: You never stop practicing fundamentals.... Ever. Period. Top players still practice fundamentals. Differently and perhaps more refined than us? Almost certainly. But they never stop working their fundamentals to improve.

if you're simply, "maintaining" you're not improving. Even if only by comparison to one's peers.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: What Material to Practice Reply with quote

AJCarter wrote:
Billy B wrote:
OrangeDreamsicle wrote:
My teacher has me mostly learning etudes to go over during our lessons, but I don't know what else to fill my practice time with besides the given etudes. Should I practice things like Schlossbergs, Arban, Clarkes (basically exercises from method books) and such, or should I practice other repertoire and etudes?

Edit: First post here, so sorry if this post would be better suited to another forum.


You should practice exactly what your teacher assigns.


Not always the case. In graduate school (which yes, I understand is different than middle school or high school), we were expected to practice fundamentals based upon weaknesses and or build those skills needed to perform etudes or rep we were assigned. He would never tell us to go out and practice Arban et al. I have been asking most of my students to think more critically in this fashion as of late and it has been yielding great results.

But to round back; Yes, the answer is to "ask your teacher". But how and what you ask is almost more important than asking the question itself. I would ask if there are any fundamental skills that you should be working to improve, or what additional materials can you use to supplement the etudes you are working on.


I seriously doubt if the OP is in grad school.

Sometimes we assign a routine heavy on fundamentals, sometimes heavy on etudes depending on the student's needs. No one on this forum or even the student has the ability to determine that mix. Do what your teach assigns.
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MrOlds
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Ask your teacher. But...

There are two things we all work toward in one way or another. How to make the trumpet work and how to make music with the trumpet.

Depending on where you are with making the trumpet work you may need to spend time building or refining parts of your technique. You can do that by playing exercises or you can do that by playing technical studies or etudes that address the holes in your technique. Your teacher may be taking this second approach. You should ask.

A rule of thumb I’ve often heard is to spend maybe 1/3 of your practice time on technique and 2/3 on playing music. There are so many books that address technique and so many “favorite” methods that it’s easy to get lost in doing routines. I’ve seen clips where Phil Smith called those people “routine players” and Vacchiano called them “buglers”.

So if you decide to work out some of your technical stuff with exercises, it’s still twice as important to work on making music.
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AJCarter
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: What Material to Practice Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
AJCarter wrote:
Billy B wrote:
OrangeDreamsicle wrote:
My teacher has me mostly learning etudes to go over during our lessons, but I don't know what else to fill my practice time with besides the given etudes. Should I practice things like Schlossbergs, Arban, Clarkes (basically exercises from method books) and such, or should I practice other repertoire and etudes?

Edit: First post here, so sorry if this post would be better suited to another forum.


You should practice exactly what your teacher assigns.


Not always the case. In graduate school (which yes, I understand is different than middle school or high school), we were expected to practice fundamentals based upon weaknesses and or build those skills needed to perform etudes or rep we were assigned. He would never tell us to go out and practice Arban et al. I have been asking most of my students to think more critically in this fashion as of late and it has been yielding great results.

But to round back; Yes, the answer is to "ask your teacher". But how and what you ask is almost more important than asking the question itself. I would ask if there are any fundamental skills that you should be working to improve, or what additional materials can you use to supplement the etudes you are working on.


I seriously doubt if the OP is in grad school.

Sometimes we assign a routine heavy on fundamentals, sometimes heavy on etudes depending on the student's needs. No one on this forum or even the student has the ability to determine that mix. Do what your teach assigns.


Thanks for reading my post where I qualified grad school is different from other levels Really glad I took the time to make a thoughtful response that adhered to the guidelines you initially put forth that determines who should be listened to. Sorry, I'll run all future responses past you first, sound good?

I didn't tell the OP what to practice, simply to inquire further what should or could be happening. Don't stifle their curiosity and ambition by telling them to defer to a teacher whose skills you ALSO don't know.
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CTeneyck
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi all,

What everyone else said and I suggest working on scale patterns and memorize them, along with memorization generally (Bach, for example.) I found Rick Willey's 'Jazz Improv Materials Handbook' to be brilliant for scales and patterns.

Having something memorized makes it easy to fill a few minutes with something fun, and it never hurts to have something ready when you just want to play something.

best, Chris
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