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UMI Benge 65B information



 
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Eduardo90
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Joined: 26 Jul 2020
Posts: 38
Location: Dominican Republic

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:31 pm    Post subject: UMI Benge 65B information Reply with quote

Hi everybody hope you all doing very good. I have been playing the trumpet for about two years and a half and i recenctly upgrade my equipment from a Jupiter JTR 600M silver plated to a UMI Benge 65B also silver plated, even though in my opinion the Jupiter 600 M was a very decent horn compared to many chinese student horns out there (in my opinion it plays almost as good as any yamaha student horn) the UMI Benge 65 B its even better because it seems to have a better tone, better response, the attacks are more clear, is easier to manipulate the timbre and also it seens to be more durable than the Jupiter. Reading some forums here i have noticed that de UMI Benge 65 B trumpet has a bad reputation, i would appreciate of somebody could explain to me whats the reason of that bad reputation, and also i have seen than on ebay many sellers describe the Benge 65B as intermiadiate model while others conserer it as a pro model, which one its correct?
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plankowner110
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Joined: 12 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eduardo90,
The Benge 65B was a high quality intermediate model while the Benge 90B Lenore was the professional model in the B series. All the lightweight X series Benge trumpets were professional models also.

Regardless, you have a very nice trumpet and it can handle anything you play on it. Enjoy playing!
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Eduardo90
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Joined: 26 Jul 2020
Posts: 38
Location: Dominican Republic

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plankowner110 wrote:
Eduardo90,
The Benge 65B was a high quality intermediate model while the Benge 90B Lenore was the professional model in the B series. All the lightweight X series Benge trumpets were professional models also.

Regardless, you have a very nice trumpet and it can handle anything you play on it. Enjoy playing!



Thanks a lot for that valuable information, because most people just complain that the UMI Benge horns dont play like real Benge horns but they dont specify if the UMI Benge are good or bad horns, in my case i purchased mine that is used but in good conditions for less than 300 usd, and i think its a good horn for people who are serious about learning the trumpet but who doesnt have the budget to buy a Bach Stradivarius or a Yamaha pro model.
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I understand the timeline progression of Benge, it went thru several transitions - with each one slightly changing the playing characteristics.
At lot of the 'gripes' about the various transitions is that the instruments did change along the way, and don't have the same personality.

Your UMI Benge is a good instrument, but probably somewhat different than a Benge from an earlier era. People who lust for a 'vintage Benge' might snub a UMI version.
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Tuningbell
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s this simple UMI Benge 65 or 90 is a Benge in name only and shares no design characteristics of the older Benges from Chicago, LA or Burbank. They were made in the King factory with King parts and at the time manufacture and quality was all over the place. (This is why they get little respect) The 65 was $500 less than the 90. Definitely intermediate model mostly because of how the bell was constructed. (Not one piece hand hammered and seamed but some kind of seamless bell likely electro formed.) For all intent and purposes your horn is a King (replacement parts would be sourced from the King catalog not Benge).

Now for some advice, if it plays in tune and works for you the name make and model are irrelevant. Again, what you have is a horn made with King parts valves, bell, etc but stamped Benge and because of this marketing choice and no relation to the “real Benge” designs is why these horns are not highly praised. If it works for you and plays in tune , has a nice sound I wouldn’t care if another person likes my horn or if it’s a prestigious brand. The lead trumpet in the Dirty Dozen brass band plays an Olds Ambassador student
model and sounds great! If you got lucky and the horn parts were assembled
by a proud craftsman who did his job well you should have a very serviceable instrument. The king factory in Eastlake Ohio was capable of making good horns if they wanted too.
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Eduardo90
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Joined: 26 Jul 2020
Posts: 38
Location: Dominican Republic

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuningbell wrote:
It’s this simple UMI Benge 65 or 90 is a Benge in name only and shares no design characteristics of the older Benges from Chicago, LA or Burbank. They were made in the King factory with King parts and at the time manufacture and quality was all over the place. (This is why they get little respect) The 65 was $500 less than the 90. Definitely intermediate model mostly because of how the bell was constructed. (Not one piece hand hammered and seamed but some kind of seamless bell likely electro formed.) For all intent and purposes your horn is a King (replacement parts would be sourced from the King catalog not Benge).

Now for some advice, if it plays in tune and works for you the name make and model are irrelevant. Again, what you have is a horn made with King parts valves, bell, etc but stamped Benge and because of this marketing choice and no relation to the “real Benge” designs is why these horns are not highly praised. If it works for you and plays in tune , has a nice sound I wouldn’t care if another person likes my horn or if it’s a prestigious brand. The lead trumpet in the Dirty Dozen brass band plays an Olds Ambassador student
model and sounds great! If you got lucky and the horn parts were assembled
by a proud craftsman who did his job well you should have a very serviceable instrument. The king factory in Eastlake Ohio was capable of making good horns if they wanted too.


Thanks a lot for taking the time to share that wonderful information but im a little curious because i have heard that many professional level horns are made with two piece or seamless bells like some Monettes and Martins for example and the same goes for many pro level flugelhorns. Does the fact that a trumpet, cornet or flugelhorn have a one piece hand hammered bell makes the instrument a pro level instrument. Sorry for my bad english
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Tuningbell
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004
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Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A one piece or two piece bell doesn’t automatically make a horn pro or student quality. This is getting to be way too complicated. A lot of the opinions you are reading are influenced by marketing and personal bias. It gets into the quality of the brass and cost of manufacturing. Students horn have 2 piece bells because it keeps the cost down. Pro horns can have a two piece bell because it’s designed that way for the sound.

The skill of the craftsman, the annealing of the metal or not, the spinning on the lathe all effects the bell quality and sound. You can have a great elctroformed or hydro formed bell made with great brass or you can have a bell made with a terrible alloy (lower quality metal) that does not resonate as well. I think that manufacturers make the horns that fit their needs and desires.

Watch this to get a good explanation about 1 vs 2 piece bells
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vLDHgcuEkVs

Monette makes slides differently than anyone else. They are tapered...assembled in two halves instead of drawn from one piece of brass tubing. That way, he also has more control over the gauge and the thickness of the brass in tubing, which he believes (as do many) makes a significant difference in trumpets.

Others make one piece bells. Olds made a two piece bell for at least the Studio. The nickel flare of that horn changed its tone. I believe I have owned other Olds horns that have had two piece bells as well, and yet the trumpet was well made, played well, and was a good instrument.

Bach makes one piece bells, but the way the bell is put together is different from others. My Conn Vintage One also has a one piece bell, and plays very well also.

But, Bach made bells out of as many as four pieces of brass during WW II, as brass was being rationed towards the war effort. After the war, Bach advertised the seemless bell as an advantage. Others joined in quickly. But, it is? To quote a person on TPIN, where's the double blind test?

My conclusion? One piece bells were a marketing ploy that may or may not make a horn play better. I say play the horn; if it plays well, who cares if it is a one, two, three, or more piece bell?
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