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Toyino
New Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2020
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:05 pm Post subject: New player in need of a bit of advice |
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Hi,
I have only been playing for 18 months (trumpet is my first instrument too). My wife has just bought me a new Schagerl 610L Bb (for my 40th birthday) as I have been playing a £100 horn. I have been playing for a few days and I have noticed that pressure builds up in the third valve slide, which makes it either return on its own when extended or not fully close unless the water key is released or I press the third valve.
Is this common with better quality horns? Is it unique to the brand? This is probably a really obvious question but I thought there'd be no harm in asking.
Thanks in advance!
Toyin |
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ayryq
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Joined: 16 Feb 2019
Posts: 354
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: New player in need of a bit of advice |
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| Toyino wrote: | | I have noticed that pressure builds up in the third valve slide, which makes it either return on its own when extended or not fully close unless the water key is released or I press the third valve.
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"Normally", you can't really extend a valve slide without pushing down the associated valve. The enclosed volume is basically airtight and so if you try to "stretch" it by extending the slide, yes it will want to return. Same (or rather reverse) problem if you extended it while the valve was depressed, and then try to bring it back without the valve down.
Is this the behavior you're talking about? Or is "pressure building up" while you're not using the valve or slide?
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Bach "Philly" C
Bach 239 Eb/D
DEG Signature 2000 Bb/A picc
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Yamaha Bobby Shew flugel
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Last edited by ayryq on Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3298
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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That is proper operation of the slide.
The slides should be reasonably 'air tight' on a quality instrument.
Your other horn probably has loose tolerance and allows significant air leakage.
A typical 'rough test' is to extend the slide (works same for 1st or 3rd slide) and depress and release the piston.
With the slide extended, and the piston UP, place you ear near the mouthpiece receiver (no mouthpiece) and push the slide IN. With 'tight valves' you should hear a slow long lasting hiss. With 'loose valves' the hiss will be louder and quickly stops.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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ayryq
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Joined: 16 Feb 2019
Posts: 354
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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I say "Normally" above because it is possible to have a small hole drilled in the third valve so that the third slide is no longer air-tight. This allows you to move the slide without pressing the valve, but has the disadvantage of letting gravity move your slide for you.
Here's a thread about valve venting:
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35389&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
_________________
Yamaha YTR6345HGS Bb
Bach "Philly" C
Bach 239 Eb/D
DEG Signature 2000 Bb/A picc
Yamaha YTR-9835 Bb/A picc
Yamaha Bobby Shew flugel
Yamaha Neo cornet
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12656
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: New player in need of a bit of advice |
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| Toyino wrote: | | Is this common with better quality horns? |
The other posters are right on. Since most horns do not have vented third valves I would say it is expected as well as common. |
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PMonteiro
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Joined: 29 Jul 2020
Posts: 130
Location: Hudson Valley
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like your £100 horn wasn't very airtight at all (hence why it was £100). I too was surprised when I moved from my first clunker to better quality instruments.
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YTR-6335HSII
YTR-2320
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Toyino
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Joined: 14 Oct 2020
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:24 pm Post subject: Thank you! |
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Thanks for your replies, you have put my mind at ease and I can get on with practising!
Really appreciated. |
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Robejazz
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Joined: 26 Mar 2021
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| Interesting Discussion - Thanks all for your insights. I have a Bobby Shew 1 and when its on a trumpet stand (its vertical) the 3rd Valve slide drops to the bottom - should It be staying in place? |
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Halflip
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1906
Location: WI
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| Robejazz wrote: | | I have a Bobby Shew 1 and when its on a trumpet stand (its vertical) the 3rd Valve slide drops to the bottom - should It be staying in place? |
If you are talking about the third valve slide dropping immediately (or within a few minutes), that probably should not be happening and suggests a leak outside the design tolerances of the horn (unless of course the valve is vented). On the other hand, if you notice the slide dropping after a period of many days (or weeks), that is most likely normal. The pull of gravity on the slide will cause a negative pressure inside the valve that will eventually let small amounts of air through to allow the slide to drop. This happened on a horn I had after I let it sit for weeks in a case I stood on end. You can have the valve pressure tested by a tech to be sure, or perform a simple test yourself by removing the valve slide, putting your finger over the end of the correct slide tube on the horn, and seeing how hard you must blow through the mouthpipe before you hear a hissing sound from the valve.
Charlie Melk once told me that no valve is perfectly airtight -- if it was, you couldn't move it! (Oiled valves with proper tolerances won't leak until enough air pressure is applied to break the seal formed by the oil.) |
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khedger
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 754
Location: Cambridge, MA
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Thank you! |
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| Toyino wrote: | Thanks for your replies, you have put my mind at ease and I can get on with practising!
Really appreciated. |
BTW.....it's a lucky man who has a wife that gifts him things like Schargerl horn!
keith  |
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