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ladsar Regular Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2018 Posts: 46
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:12 am Post subject: Curry 3C same size as Bach 3C? |
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Hi!
I'm looking for an allround trumpet mouthpiece. Before ordering I would like to narrow my search as much as possible. I've heard many positive things about Curry mouthpieces. But I am somewhat confused beacuse of the difference in inner cup diamter. Bach 3C cup diameter is 16.3 mm. But Curry 3C cup diameter is 16,9 mm. Am I right about this? I've read and heard many things about inconsistency and so on when it comes to mouthpieces. I hope someone can help me out here. |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Different mouthpieces may be measured at different points on the mouthpiece, so they are not a reliable indicator.
I use a Curry 3C. and previously used a Bach 3C for many years. They are functionally equivalent. Some people find the Curry a bit on the larger side, but I personally never found that to be the case.
Good luck! _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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ladsar Regular Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2018 Posts: 46
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, that's very helpful
Looks like it has to be 3C or 5C. Du you know if there is a significant difference between those Curry mouthpieces except from cup diameter? |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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ladsar wrote: | Thank you, that's very helpful
Looks like it has to be 3C or 5C. Du you know if there is a significant difference between those Curry mouthpieces except from cup diameter? |
I don't know, I haven't played a Curry 5. The Currys are based on Bachs (at least the C cups are) so they won't be very far apart from what you're used to with a Bach. Ultimately, you might have to try both and sell the one you don't like on the Trumpetherald marketplace or eBay or whatever.
My experience with Bach mouthpieces many, many years ago was that my 3Cs were considerably shallower than my 5C, but again this was quite a long time ago.
Good luck! _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Ignore the published IDs, they really don't tell the story. The Curry 3C. I've played great. Depending on the vintage of Bach 3C it may feel slighter smaller or larger but not radically so.
Understand that the Bach 5C and 3C may be slightly different sizes but are defined by quite a different rim feel and bite. The 3C feeling relatively flat with a soft-ish bite and the 5C with a relative rounder rim and a sharper bite. I understand that the Curry pieces follow this convention. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2327 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, there is a significant difference between a Curry 3 rim and a Curry 5 rim.. as someone else wrote the 5's are more rounded with a sharper bite, and a touch smaller. #3 rims are flatter with a softer bite, IMO a great balance - not too sharp, not too soft.
Go for the Curry 3C. Then you can get a deeper or shallower cup as you want. A big plus, to me, is that Curry rims are consistent regardless of cup shape, depth, or instrument (Flugel, Cornet, Trumpet) - they all feel the same (unlike some makers)
And stick with the standard blank, not the "UltraLite, BlackJack HitMan" designs.
The only "odd-ball" one in the mix the 3 BC. which comes stock with a Bach like blank (looks like a Bach mouthpiece) and is a slightly different rim size/shape compared to his normal 3 rim. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman
Last edited by zaferis on Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ladsar Regular Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2018 Posts: 46
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:34 am Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: | Go for the Curry 3C. Then you can get a deeper or shallower cup as you want. A big plus, to me, is that Curry rims are consistent regardless of cup shape, depth, or instrument |
That's a big plus! I play in a big band, so I might go for another Curry if I like the 3C or 5C
I did try a 5BBC and a 5DC for my cornet. It worked well for me, the rim felt very comfortable. So I might go for 5C on my trumpet. Anyway, I did order 3C and 5C, maybe I like the 3C even better Or maybe I don't... After searching for a while I've more than once been sure that I found the right one. But when I try it, it's not even close.
Off course, in the end it's all about how you practice. But I believe right equipment will make things a little bit easier. |
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iiipopes Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 554
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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Curry 3C the same size as a Bach 3C? It depends on which Bach 3C was made during which run of 3C mouthpieces in which year in the last seventy years. _________________ King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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ladsar Regular Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2018 Posts: 46
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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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iiipopes wrote: | Curry 3C the same size as a Bach 3C? It depends on which Bach 3C was made during which run of 3C mouthpieces in which year in the last seventy years. |
In my first post I'm referring to a Bach 3C cup diameter 16,3 mm and a Curry 3C cup diamter 16,9 mm. This is taken from the newest charts, so I'm talking about brand new mouthpieces. I currently play on a Vincent Bach Corp. 3C, and I know this is a different mouthpiece than a new Bach 3C. As Turkle said, mouthpieces may be measured at different points. So I'm not sure if I can compare those charts or not. |
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mm55 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1412
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:35 am Post subject: |
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ladsar wrote: | a Bach 3C cup diameter 16,3 mm and a Curry 3C cup diamter 16,9 mm. This is taken from the newest charts, | Newest charts or not, the numbers can't really be compared unless you know, in detail, the measurement method, as well as the manufacturing tolerances. And even then, they're likely to be marketing numbers rather than technical specifications. _________________ '75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:31 am Post subject: |
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And even if you know exactly how the pieces are measured, that really doesn't tell you how the piece is going to feel. Tiny difference in shape and blow can make a big difference in perceived size. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:07 am Post subject: |
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The Curry blank is very different from the Bach blank. There is a difference in feel on the face.
I didn't like the weight distribution yet the rest of the 3C was fine.
You can order his Bach style blank for a small extra cost.
R. Tomasek |
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iiipopes Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 554
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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ladsar wrote: | iiipopes wrote: | Curry 3C the same size as a Bach 3C? It depends on which Bach 3C was made during which run of 3C mouthpieces in which year in the last seventy years. |
In my first post I'm referring to a Bach 3C cup diameter 16,3 mm and a Curry 3C cup diamter 16,9 mm. This is taken from the newest charts, so I'm talking about brand new mouthpieces. I currently play on a Vincent Bach Corp. 3C, and I know this is a different mouthpiece than a new Bach 3C. As Turkle said, mouthpieces may be measured at different points. So I'm not sure if I can compare those charts or not. |
The Bach charts lie. Period. Most 3Cs are in the neighborhood and average about .665 inches, or 16.9mm as is the Curry. As I sit here while I type this post with my mouthpieces and calipers at hand, I have an unknown age Selmer era Bach 3C cornet mouthpiece (no Corp) that measures about .670; my early-to-mid-'70's trumpet 3C my folks bought me in high school that measures about .665; and my relatively new 3C/76 backbore I bought from the guy who bought it new a few years ago that measures about .665. All have slightly different rim contours.
By contrast, I have two Yammy Bobby Shew "Jazz" trumpet mouthpieces, which are essentially a 3C cup and rim with a tighter backbore, purchased at different times, so probably out of different runs, and they both measure exactly on "spec" of .663. _________________ King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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SMrtn Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2014 Posts: 367 Location: Spain
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Turkle wrote: | Different mouthpieces may be measured at different points on the mouthpiece, so they are not a reliable indicator.
I use a Curry 3C. and previously used a Bach 3C for many years. They are functionally equivalent. Some people find the Curry a bit on the larger side, but I personally never found that to be the case.
Good luck! |
This is correct - nothing more to add.
Except.....perhaps I disagree slightly with Curry being the same size as the Bach. I think the Curry is larger, not by much, but diameter, feel and weight - definitely larger. The Curry is more the higher quality piece. |
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iiipopes Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 554
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:19 am Post subject: |
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SMrtn wrote: | Except.....perhaps I disagree slightly with Curry being the same size as the Bach. I think the Curry is larger, not by much, but diameter, feel and weight - definitely larger. The Curry is more the higher quality piece. |
This could be because of the throat. Bach ships with a standard #27 throat. In the old days, they also shipped with a reamer so the player could adjust the throat to his/her breath support. But nobody does, except for a few players in orchestra and a couple of other places who enlarge their throats in conjunction with their master consultant and master tech.
By contrast, Curry has a slightly enlarged throat, what he calls a "wobbly 27," a couple of thou larger so if you pass a #27 drill bit through it, it is loose, about half-way between a #27 and a #26 drill bit. The larger throat, even though only a couple of thou, will have less resistance and give the impression of a larger mouthpiece.
Knowing this, I enlarged the throat of my custom Bach 3C/#76 backbore the same way to Curry specs. Everything has opened up in tone, intonation, and the "feel" or "feedback" that helps me be as efficient as I can be with my breath support. Your mileage will vary. _________________ King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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SMrtn Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2014 Posts: 367 Location: Spain
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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iiipopes wrote: | SMrtn wrote: | Except.....perhaps I disagree slightly with Curry being the same size as the Bach. I think the Curry is larger, not by much, but diameter, feel and weight - definitely larger. The Curry is more the higher quality piece. |
This could be because of the throat. Bach ships with a standard #27 throat. In the old days, they also shipped with a reamer so the player could adjust the throat to his/her breath support. But nobody does, except for a few players in orchestra and a couple of other places who enlarge their throats in conjunction with their master consultant and master tech.
By contrast, Curry has a slightly enlarged throat, what he calls a "wobbly 27," a couple of thou larger so if you pass a #27 drill bit through it, it is loose, about half-way between a #27 and a #26 drill bit. The larger throat, even though only a couple of thou, will have less resistance and give the impression of a larger mouthpiece.
Knowing this, I enlarged the throat of my custom Bach 3C/#76 backbore the same way to Curry specs. Everything has opened up in tone, intonation, and the "feel" or "feedback" that helps me be as efficient as I can be with my breath support. Your mileage will vary. |
That sounds quite feasible. Interesting info.
Thanks. |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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A picture paints a thousand words.
https://i.postimg.cc/MpncVKkY/Curry-3-C-dot-red-vs-Bach-3-C-green.jpg
Curry 3C.(red) vs. Bach 3C (green)
Click on the image to open it full-sized in a separate window.
Note that though the Bach 3C varies a bit, the one used in the scan is considered to be one of the good ones. It is actually Charlie Davis's early Elkhart 3C.
The Curry 3C. is modeled after a smaller than typical Mt Vernon Bach 3C that Mark Curry found. As such, though it has the rim contour and cup shape of a Mt Vernon Bach 3C (both of which are different than that of a typical Elkhart Bach 3C), it has a cup diameter size that is very close to a typical Elkhart 3C. It is a little deeper than a typical Elkhart 3C and due to the decreased alpha angle of the cup coming off the rim (more of a straighter drop), it feels a little bigger than a typical Elkhart 3C.
To the OP: I recommend you order a Curry 3C. mouthpiece. I think it's a better mouthpiece than the current standard Bach 3C. Though it's not my main mouthpiece, I could make the Curry 3C. work fine for me in just about any playing situation I encounter. I could not do that as well with a new Bach 3C.
Cheers,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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ladsar Regular Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2018 Posts: 46
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | Note that though the Bach 3C varies a bit, the one used in the scan is considered to be one of the good ones. It is actually Charlie Davis's early Elkhart 3C.
The Curry 3C. is modeled after a smaller than typical Mt Vernon Bach 3C that Mark Curry found. As such, though it has the rim contour and cup shape of a Mt Vernon Bach 3C (both of which are different than that of a typical Elkhart Bach 3C), it has a cup diameter size that is very close to a typical Elkhart 3C. It is a little deeper than a typical Elkhart 3C and due to the decreased alpha angle of the cup coming off the rim (more of a straighter drop), it feels a little bigger than a typical Elkhart 3C.
To the OP: I recommend you order a Curry 3C. mouthpiece. I think it's a better mouthpiece than the current standard Bach 3C. Though it's not my main mouthpiece, I could make the Curry 3C. work fine for me in just about any playing situation I encounter. I could not do that as well with a new Bach 3C.
Cheers,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested |
Thank you, very good information
I did order a standard Curry 3C. and the 5C. I will probably get them today or tomorrow, looking forward to try them this weekend. |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9361 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:51 am Post subject: |
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I was a long time Bach 3C player (I had an older Corp. one) and was never really happy with the shallow cup depth and my tone on it. I tried a Bach 3B and it was a totally different animal. Really nice tone, but it sucked the life out of me.
I had previously purchased a Curry 3BBC. for my cornet and really liked it, so I bought a Curry 3C. to see how I liked it. Man, it was great from the first note, familiar but much better than the Bach. I'm still playing it today as my main, all-around mouthpiece. Easy on the face, nice tone, good endurance - I highly recommend it. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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intrepidpooch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 757 Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Also, I highly recommend the ACB 3C. It's probably the best early Elkhart Bach 3C type mouthpiece I've ever played. If you're looking for a larger Mt. Vernon Bach 3C size, the Curry 3C. is definitely an incredible piece. It is a bit on the big size--the best Mt. Vernon 3C "copy" that doesn't feel too big is the Warburton Arturo. _________________ Ray Callender
http://musicians.allaboutjazz.com/raycallender
http://www.myspace.com/raycallender |
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