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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 10:47 am Post subject: Selmer 24B specifications |
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Hello guys , I just won this Selmer 24B in very good price, did you now any specs for this baby.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Selmer-Trumpet-Trumpet-/294153551265?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 11:06 am Post subject: |
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This is some of the info I kept on my computer from several sources:
19 - medium-small: .450"
20 - medium: .456"
24 - medium-large: .458"
25 - large: .468"
Grands Prix trumpets were Selmer's venerable top-of-the-line flagship, and were available in two basic models...the 20B and 24B. There were other aberrant examples such as the 23B and 25B models, but they had very limited production. It is at this juncture that I would like to correct the incredible amount of misinformation that exists on various "forums" about these two models. The 20B has a .456" bore while the 24B has a .458" bore. I have read copious threads proclaiming that the 24B is the model to own...not IMHO! The 20B was the artist model as evidenced by the "Qualite Artisitique" (Artist Quality) located at the top of the bell engraving...the 24B was the "standard" model. Furthermore, what manufacturer would build two identical trumpets with two thousandths difference in bore size?...none. The 20B Artist Model has heavier walled slide tubing thus reducing the inside diameter by .002". This changes the resonance of the horn and provides a more dense and centered core. The 20B also sports a slightly heavier bell that likewise adds to the purer sound of the 20B, thus making it the choice of most professionals. The 20B is truly an all purpose trumpet capable of producing superb results playing any music style in any acoustic venue. It has the ability to cut through a section, but balances well with the other horns. Its tone is lush, dense, rich, centered, focused, and somewhat warm as one would expect from a top-of-the-line Paris trumpet built from high quality French brass. When pushed, it can become quite bright with a sophisticated edge and complex overtones. The 20B is a medium weight (2 lb. – 5.9 oz.) free and open blowing, medium bore trumpet that is easy to play and fill, absolutely loves to be piloted in the stratosphere, and exhibits awesome flexibility and responsiveness. The horn has superb intonation and laser slots.
Another issue regarding misinformation pertains to the mouthpiece receiver stampings. The 20B trumpet has the following marks, and are interpreted as follows:
BB = Bb pitch
MB = Medium bore leadpipe...you had a choice of a medium or large bore lead pipe with the Artist Model.
LP = Low pitch
20 = Medium .456" bore
Lastly, these pre-K-Modified Grands Prix trumpets have a european (french) tapered mpc. receiver.
Specs 20B:
bore Size - .456" medium bore
features - One-piece bell; corrosion resistant solid nickel silver leadpipe and inner slide tubes; reversed 1st valve slide w/ trigger; reversed 3rd valve slide w/ adjustable ring.
NB: Schilke mpcs. have a narrower shank and fit the euro receiver quite well. |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 650
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 11:08 am Post subject: |
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the 24B should be a .459" (ML) bore. From the serial on that horn, it should be early in the K-Mod range, meaning it will accept American mouthpieces. The leadpipe and inner tubes should all be nickel silver, so you won't have to worry about corrosion except in the main tuning slide. I'm unsure of the leadpipe Venturi, or the average gap, but the gap on my Selmer 25 is .290" with an AR Resonance backbore. The valves should be nickel plated rather than Monel. These horns have a tight wrap like NY Bachs, and play with a "locked in" feel (assuming no leaks). The timbre is pretty unique, with a solid center and a darkness to the sound that I haven't found in many other horns. A very "vintage" sound, in a good way. Enjoy your new purchase! They're great horns, and very under appreciated in the modern collector's market. |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Great infos guys !!!!!! Thanks
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3635 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 11:59 am Post subject: |
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There is no "K-Modified" on the receiver, and no engraving such as Selmer did for export instruments. The receiver might be one of the old deep-reach types. If so, you just need a mouthpiece that goes in further. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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yourbrass wrote: | There is no "K-Modified" on the receiver, and no engraving such as Selmer did for export instruments. The receiver might be one of the old deep-reach types. If so, you just need a mouthpiece that goes in further. |
According to the Adam's serial number list is made back in 1956-57 but also to me don't looks like a K-modified but I am prepared , I have a good collection of old Selmer special and soloist double cups mpcs that works great for me.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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My only real problem is how I will tell to my wife about the new horn.....
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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giakara wrote: | yourbrass wrote: | There is no "K-Modified" on the receiver, and no engraving such as Selmer did for export instruments. The receiver might be one of the old deep-reach types. If so, you just need a mouthpiece that goes in further. |
According to the Adam's serial number list is made back in 1956-57 but also to me don't looks like a K-modified but I am prepared , I have a good collection of old Selmer special and soloist double cups mpcs that works great for me.
Regards |
Wrong date , I am stupid , the horn was made between 1937-38 I am very excited , always I wanted to have a old Selmer in good condition , now the next target is a balanced model.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 650
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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here is an old post about the transition to the K-Modified instruments:
[quote="Kream"]Thanks all!
I've send a mail to Alan about this horn and he replied that all Selmer's with a number after 15000 are most certainly a K-modified. So this must be a K-modified! Why don't I paste the mail he send here, some useful info:
[i]That horn is certainly a Selmer Paris horn. I can't see enough in the
picture to confirm that it is K-Modified. There are a couple of ways to
tell. The most obvious would be "K-Modified" engraved on the side of
the mouthpiece receiver pipe. The other would be by serial number.
K-Modified was introduced around 1954 (I don't know the exact point in
time). Serial numbers after 15000 are almost certainly K-Modified.
Those between 13000 and 15000 might be. It is even possible that a
horn is K-Modified even if the mouthpiece receiver is not labeled as
such, if the serial number is early in the K-Modified era. When the
K-Modified model was introduced, they offered a free conversion to those
who had bought a horn recently. That basically consisted of a lead pipe
change. I've heard that these horns sometimes don't have the K-Modified
label. |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Goby"]here is an old post about the transition to the K-Modified instruments:
Kream wrote: | Thanks all!
I've send a mail to Alan about this horn and he replied that all Selmer's with a number after 15000 are most certainly a K-modified. So this must be a K-modified! Why don't I paste the mail he send here, some useful info:
[i]That horn is certainly a Selmer Paris horn. I can't see enough in the
picture to confirm that it is K-Modified. There are a couple of ways to
tell. The most obvious would be "K-Modified" engraved on the side of
the mouthpiece receiver pipe. The other would be by serial number.
K-Modified was introduced around 1954 (I don't know the exact point in
time). Serial numbers after 15000 are almost certainly K-Modified.
Those between 13000 and 15000 might be. It is even possible that a
horn is K-Modified even if the mouthpiece receiver is not labeled as
such, if the serial number is early in the K-Modified era. When the
K-Modified model was introduced, they offered a free conversion to those
who had bought a horn recently. That basically consisted of a lead pipe
change. I've heard that these horns sometimes don't have the K-Modified
label. |
Yes you have right, I read it wrong is a 50's horn .
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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I am pretty sure that is a K-modified model , I compared the bell engraving with some bells from same period K-modified horns and is exactly the same, the only thing is that is different is that mine has a quick change to A mechanism to the tuning slide and no trigger to the first valve slide.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3635 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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That's an interesting aspect to this horn - the old-style a-rod.
Let us know how deep the receiver is, if it's very deep, it's a 24B model without the K-Mod alterations.
-Lionel _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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Sure , I recive it at the end of May and I will post a review.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 2:43 am Post subject: |
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https://www.trevorjonesltd.co.uk/Vintage_Trumpet_8.htm
I found this pic , the horn looks very close to mine and have the A rod and no trigger to first valve slide BUT it has the K-modified engraved on the bell, the serial number is later , I am confused...
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3635 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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That one has the engraving for export. I've never seen a K-Mod without the first trigger. Maybe that was for U'S. exports only. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Do you mean that for the European market the options was different?
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3635 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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giakara wrote: | Do you mean that for the European market the options was different?
Regards |
Selmer saxophones, for example, were not engraved unless for export. The silver 24B that you just bought appears to have no engraving, which might indicate it was made for the domestic market. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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yourbrass wrote: | giakara wrote: | Do you mean that for the European market the options was different?
Regards |
Selmer saxophones, for example, were not engraved unless for export. The silver 24B that you just bought appears to have no engraving, which might indicate it was made for the domestic market. |
Ok , that explains and the reciver without the K-modified engraving , I bet that is a older type that takes European shank mpcs.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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There must be a lot of Selmer trumpets from the fifties, especially in Europe, that don't have the K-modification. Giakara bought his horn in Germany so it could be an 'European' Selmer without the K-mod. I don't think his horn is much older because it doesn't have (so far as I can see) the 'Grand Prix' engraving which was quite regular for the earlier (pre-K-mod) Selmers.
BTW a lot of players didn't think the K-mod was an improvement. |
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krax Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 684 Location: Hofors, Sweden
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 6:03 am Post subject: |
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There were Selmer horns with K-mod (= modern) recievers in Europe without K-mod engravings. It just became their standard reciever, and naturally, those trumpets they made that weren't K-modifieds, well, they were not marked K-modified even though thay were made with the same kind of reciever. The oldest De Villes were made in the late 50's with the same reciever as the K-Mods. The Sabarich model were made with modern receivers too, at the same time.
K-mods and first valve triggers... I have one at home right now without first valve trigger but with engraving. I had a K-Mod 19A just a month ago with no engraving and without first valve. I believe that one was made on special order.
And that's the thing. I would say the standard US export K-Modified were made as yourbrass states it, with first valve trigger and engraving. Whatever you could buy in Europe, closer to the factory, some shops surely could get their trumpets with different options. There are some horns with special factory engravings around too.
Congrats on the horn, Giakara! I was about to bid on that one too, but forgot about it. |
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