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Adams A2 vs Bach Artisan New


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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 2:15 pm    Post subject: Adams A2 vs Bach Artisan New Reply with quote

Hey guys, I'm new here. I need some advice on a couple of trumpets. Forgive me for the intro story, but I think it helps guide the advice. I need two trumpets. One for me, a comeback player from school days, and one for my daughter, a talented player that is gaining solid traction.

Back Story and info:
We homeschool and a local private Baptist College near us started up a homeschool band. I jumped on that for my older two. My son is on sax, and my daughter chose the trumpet. The band director is a very highly rated trumpet player and has a doctorate in Music. He has been helping us out, and I am now back playing in the band with my kids and I would like a new trumpet. They allow outsiders to help play in the band due to the music program being shut down for several years and they are trying to build it back up now.

When she joined, my student Bundy looked horrible, and I felt bad making her play it. I ended up getting her a Jean-Paul beginner trumpet for $50 on eBay. it looked new. I've never known a lot about trumpets, honestly. I just got a cheap option that was rated good for beginners on youtube. She has been playing 3-4 years now. She loves it. It sounds surprisingly good....

She recently played in a local honor band consisting of 15 local public schools (She was allowed to play since the homeschool band was tied officially to the college). A total of 12 trumpet players (9-12th graders) showed up for the high school side. Surprisingly, my daughter, a 9th grader got first chair on that $50 trumpet after auditions! Blew me away when I found out! I knew she had a good sound, but wow! (Don't mean to embellish but I'm a super proud dad here, lol)

We are hearing a lot of chatter about full scholarships from the local college professor, and the visiting band director that led the honor band. So, I want to invest in a trumpet that will not hold her back.

Trumpet Options:
Based on the recommendation of Austin Custom Brass, I am looking at the Adams A2. I also have started looking at the Bach Artisan or normal 19037.

Thanks to the Awesome people at Austin Custom Brass, I have a good deal on an A2 and I almost pulled the trigger, but I've had another offer come up. I took back a cheaper Chinese trumpet that I was demoing from a local music store (supposedly a Bach clone). I let them know the band director tried it for us and said it wasn't better than what we had, so we have to aim higher. I told him about the Adams trumpet and let him know we had planned to get it. He said he can't get that brand, however, he said he would make us an offer for a Bach that we couldn't pass up (I didn't ask, I was just going to leave after dropping off that trumpet). I was skeptical it would be that great, but asked out of curiosity. I have done some business here before, and it is a small town. He told me he wanted to help me out and said he would do a new Bach 180 37 for $1800, and a 190 37 for $2100. I'm waiting for a call back about the price on the Artisan. At that price, I'm tempted to get two so I can have one too! I need a new trumpet and that's a killer deal.

BUT is the Adams still better? I’m having a hard time getting comparisons. The band director plays a 1960s Elkhart (not sure the model), but doesn’t know about Adams to give advice. I can't try anything locally unless I order something.

Which would be a better trumpet to go into college with and hopefully just have forever?
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Goby
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bach has a stronger reputation than Adams at the moment, although Adams produces a higher quality product overall. From personal experience, skip the Artisan model and 180 37 entirely and go for the 190 37 or the Adams. To be frank, $1800 for a 180 37 is really high, but $2100 for a 190 37 is pretty fair if the horn is new, or close to new. I don't think any professor or band director will take issue with either horn. The differences in sound between a 190 series Bach and an Adams A2 will be negligible, and neither will hold your (or your daughter's) playing back. If you wanted to upgrade your daughter's horn without breaking the bank, Carolbrass makes fantastic professional horns for far less than Bach charges for their 180 series. Carolbrass pro models definitely outperform a 180 series Bach, but I wouldn't put them on the same level as Adams or the 190 Bachs. You could probably track down a used one for under $1000, maybe even under $800, and your daughter can have a high-quality horn and you won't have to worry (as much) about it getting damaged or stolen if it's at school.
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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goby wrote:
Bach has a stronger reputation than Adams at the moment, although Adams produces a higher quality product overall. From personal experience, skip the Artisan model and 180 37 entirely and go for the 190 37 or the Adams. To be frank, $1800 for a 180 37 is really high, but $2100 for a 190 37 is pretty fair if the horn is new, or close to new. I don't think any professor or band director will take issue with either horn. The differences in sound between a 190 series Bach and an Adams A2 will be negligible, and neither will hold your (or your daughter's) playing back. If you wanted to upgrade your daughter's horn without breaking the bank, Carolbrass makes fantastic professional horns for far less than Bach charges for their 180 series. Carolbrass pro models definitely outperform a 180 series Bach, but I wouldn't put them on the same level as Adams or the 190 Bachs. You could probably track down a used one for under $1000, maybe even under $800, and your daughter can have a high-quality horn and you won't have to worry (as much) about it getting damaged or stolen if it's at school.


Wow, thanks for the input. Now, please help me understand. $1800 for a brand new Bach 180 37 is really high? I can't find that horn online for less than $2800 new. All the prices he quoted were for new. The Artisan is $4k new, and the 190 is only a few hundred less. I'm sure you can get this discounted some on sale, but half price is normal?

Speaking of Carolbrass, Austin Custom Brass has a Manchester Brass horn that is made by Carolbrass and is Trent's backup horn. That's what I was looking at until I thought I needed to aim higher. I don't want to keep buying upgrades over time. I would like a trumpet I can just play and go, and not be left wondering if I could do better.
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CalicchioMan
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamaha Bobby Shew Gen II trumpet...about $2400.00 new

Best,

Scott
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Goby
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chumpet wrote:
Goby wrote:
Bach has a stronger reputation than Adams at the moment, although Adams produces a higher quality product overall. From personal experience, skip the Artisan model and 180 37 entirely and go for the 190 37 or the Adams. To be frank, $1800 for a 180 37 is really high, but $2100 for a 190 37 is pretty fair if the horn is new, or close to new. I don't think any professor or band director will take issue with either horn. The differences in sound between a 190 series Bach and an Adams A2 will be negligible, and neither will hold your (or your daughter's) playing back. If you wanted to upgrade your daughter's horn without breaking the bank, Carolbrass makes fantastic professional horns for far less than Bach charges for their 180 series. Carolbrass pro models definitely outperform a 180 series Bach, but I wouldn't put them on the same level as Adams or the 190 Bachs. You could probably track down a used one for under $1000, maybe even under $800, and your daughter can have a high-quality horn and you won't have to worry (as much) about it getting damaged or stolen if it's at school.


Wow, thanks for the input. Now, please help me understand. $1800 for a brand new Bach 180 37 is really high? I can't find that horn online for less than $2800 new. All the prices he quoted were for new. The Artisan is $4k new, and the 190 is only a few hundred less. I'm sure you can get this discounted some on sale, but half price is normal?

Speaking of Carolbrass, Austin Custom Brass has a Manchester Brass horn that is made by Carolbrass and is Trent's backup horn. That's what I was looking at until I thought I needed to aim higher. I don't want to keep buying upgrades over time. I would like a trumpet I can just play and go, and not be left wondering if I could do better.


180 37 horns see their resale value drop like a rock. They have all of the quality cuts and economical changes that were implemented after Vincent Bach retired, which is why I don’t like them. A 190 horn is much more true to the horns that Bach built their reputation on. “Street price” for a nice pre-owned 180 37 is 1100-1400, maybe even less with the depressed economy. The Manchester Brass horns are certainly nice, but Carolbrass has a few other horns in their catalog that have bronze bells and slides, sterling silver leadpipes, nickel trim, and generally more premium options than Manchester brass. With that being said, Manchester Brass has the same valves and bells that Harrelson, Warburton, and others use, so you’re not really missing out on much with those horns. If you can find a used CarolBrass, that’s an even better deal. If you want to go with something new, I don’t blame you one bit, but you can save a few bucks on a used horn now and have money left over for more trumpets later.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I just responded to this question on reddit. Anyway....

Goby wrote:
Bach has a stronger reputation than Adams at the moment, although Adams produces a higher quality product overall. From personal experience, skip the Artisan model and 180 37 entirely and go for the 190 37 or the Adams. To be frank, $1800 for a 180 37 is really high, but $2100 for a 190 37 is pretty fair if the horn is new, or close to new.

?

New Bach 180-37's sell for around $3000 new.

New Bach 190-37's sell for about $3800 or so, new.

One can debate whether they're worth that much, whether they're a good deal at those prices, but that's the current retail market. The idea that $1800 is "really high" for a NEW Bach 37 is completely and utterly bogus.

Again, you can say - I wouldn't pay $1800 for a Bach 37, sure. I wouldn't either because I don't like Bach 37's, I've only played maybe a half dozen or so in my life that I thought played really nice (out of several hundred). But, that's not here or there. The price is the retail market reality.

I also disagree that Bachs lose a ton of value in resale, more than other pro horns. It seems like they hold their value fairly well - though your range of $1100-1400 is fairly on - though, it seems it can go a bit higher in my area. I suppose smaller makers tend to go for a bit more, but both the demand and supply is less, so that's not surprising. Also, they tend to cost more, initially.

Frankly, unlike cars, I wouldn't dwell too much on resale for trumpets.

Chumpet wrote:
Hey guys, I'm new here. I need some advice on a couple of trumpets.

...

I can't try anything locally unless I order something.

Which would be a better trumpet to go into college with and hopefully just have forever?


Sigh, the real answer is the one that plays better IS better. However, if you can't play the horn before trying - I'd probably go with the Adams.

Bachs - especially the 180 series, vary from horn to horn. They all seem to play differently to some degree. Some are bit more resistant, some more open, and so forth. Supposedly, this is less the case on the 190's, but frankly, it's still a Bach. The rule of thumb is to try a Bach before you buy one.

Also, I trust the guys at ACB to pick out a good horn more than the dude at the local shop. Plus, it sounds like he's just ordering one in from Bach. ACB might not be a Bach dealer, but they get plenty of Bachs in and Trent's played pretty much every horn under the sun. He used to play on Shires horns, which I thought were amazing. If he moved on to Adams from Shires, they have to be pretty good.
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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goby wrote:
180 37 horns see their resale value drop like a rock. They have all of the quality cuts and economical changes that were implemented after Vincent Bach retired, which is why I don’t like them. A 190 horn is much more true to the horns that Bach built their reputation on. “Street price” for a nice pre-owned 180 37 is 1100-1400, maybe even less with the depressed economy. The Manchester Brass horns are certainly nice, but Carolbrass has a few other horns in their catalog that have bronze bells and slides, sterling silver leadpipes, nickel trim, and generally more premium options than Manchester brass. With that being said, Manchester Brass has the same valves and bells that Harrelson, Warburton, and others use, so you’re not really missing out on much with those horns. If you can find a used CarolBrass, that’s an even better deal. If you want to go with something new, I don’t blame you one bit, but you can save a few bucks on a used horn now and have money left over for more trumpets later.


Yeah, that makes sense. I've been looking at used, but used in like-new condition is closer to 2k for the 180s, and 190s are even more. This price seemed to be basically the price of a used for new.

I am not at all stuck on buying new, but I can't find a used Adam A2 and I don't know of any others that rate as high as the A2. I was never even seriously looking at Bach until I was offered those prices. The A2 new was offered for only $2700 shipped, and ACB said it was better than the Bachs. I saw no reason to consider them.
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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
I think I just responded to this question on reddit. Anyway....


Lol yes you did. I decided to post in both places to get as much feedback as possible. Thank you for the info twice!!
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loweredsixth
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goby wrote:
Bach has a stronger reputation than Adams at the moment, although Adams produces a higher quality product overall. From personal experience, skip the Artisan model and 180 37 entirely and go for the 190 37 or the Adams. To be frank, $1800 for a 180 37 is really high, but $2100 for a 190 37 is pretty fair if the horn is new, or close to new. I don't think any professor or band director will take issue with either horn. The differences in sound between a 190 series Bach and an Adams A2 will be negligible, and neither will hold your (or your daughter's) playing back. If you wanted to upgrade your daughter's horn without breaking the bank, Carolbrass makes fantastic professional horns for far less than Bach charges for their 180 series. Carolbrass pro models definitely outperform a 180 series Bach, but I wouldn't put them on the same level as Adams or the 190 Bachs. You could probably track down a used one for under $1000, maybe even under $800, and your daughter can have a high-quality horn and you won't have to worry (as much) about it getting damaged or stolen if it's at school.


Goby, your information regarding Bach in your response is waaay off base. Specifically the pricing and resale value. Find me a brand new Bach Strad for $1800 anywhere.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread seems like "Jeep Grand Cherokee or Cadillac Escalade"

The Grand Cherokee is a heck if car, is pulling in more and more market share to Jeep, and is a rebel in the higher-end SUV market. The Adams A2 is a rebel with unique traits of its own, winning customers who like something a little different to the brand, fueling Trent's bottom line.

But a Cadillac is a Cadillac and a Bach is a Bach.

At $2100 for a 190-37 I am tempted to tell you to get the Adams and give me the phone number to get the Bach. I could resell it at a profit.

The best advice is to see what fits your daughter (or at least you) better - perhaps relying on more trained ears for advice in person too. But blind, playing the odds, there is no way I would not go Bach in that pairing. And you are asking us to judge with no hands-on with the horns, while it sounds like you have that option. You should be deciding based on that alone, not our advice.
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Chumpet
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
The best advice is to see what fits your daughter (or at least you) better - perhaps relying on more trained ears for advice in person too. But blind, playing the odds, there is no way I would not go Bach in that pairing. And you are asking us to judge with no hands-on with the horns, while it sounds like you have that option. You should be deciding based on that alone, not our advice.


Not without ordering them in first. I actually came here hoping to find someone who has played them both to weigh in.

The band director has become a personal friend of ours. We give the trumpets to him to play. He is the one that told us the Chinese Bach clone was NOT better than my student Bundy that is around 30 years old. lol He and his wife and child came to the house the other night and played his Elkhart, then that Chinese one, then my bundy, then my King Silver Flair (I do not like that one). I got it for $100 off a friend who used to play, but it sounds muffled. The director's wife is a professional flute player, and she said it sounds like there is a sock stuff in it. lol

I have every intention of letting him be the final judge of the horn. I was just hoping to know which was better to put the effort into ordering in. I can't get both at the same time. The A2 will take time to get in because ACB doesn't have one in the cheaper finish my daughter likes, and I have no idea how long it will take to get the Bach in. I went to the music store today, but he had to leave shortly after. He is a one-man ran shop, but he has been around 20+ years and seems to be able to beat ANY price you give him. No matter how low it goes on websites, he will beat it (maybe the music store is a front for drugs and he doesn't really care about profit? LOL). I did walk in while he was talking to another friend of his about all the day trading he does while at the store. Does it all day, lol. He must have some connections somewhere. But since he is alone, he is also very inconsistent to get ahold of. I've been waiting all day to hear back, and nothing yet. Maybe tomorrow.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chumpet wrote:
He and his wife and child came to the house the other night and played his Elkhart, then that Chinese one, then my bundy, then my King Silver Flair (I do not like that one). I got it for $100 off a friend who used to play, but it sounds muffled. The director's wife is a professional flute player, and she said it sounds like there is a sock stuff in it.


A Silver Flair, even a UMI one, would not sound like it had a sock in it unless something was badly wrong. I assume a leaking spit key would be noticed by a band director, so in all likelihood, the valves leak badly - could simply be wear, could be a damaged piston port leaking to the vent hole, or, I have encountered a few, a pinpoint dent & hole in a knuckle between the valves.

As for your choice: If you read any of my writings (book, website, posts) you will see that Bach has always been very open with me sharing both their strengths and their embarrassments equally. Adams is very secretive. Having played a lot of Bachs (not so much Adams, but have encountered a couple that I cannot fault), without trying first I would definitely go with the Bach 190-37. If nothing else I could resell it. But based on my own experience, and all I learned from Roy Hempley about prior Bach generations before he passed, it is my opinion that the Bachs built today, especially the 190-series, will one day be higher regarded than any others.
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Goby
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d like to clarify my comment about $1800 being too high. Compared to MSRP, yes, it is a large savings. However, at that price, you’re not getting good value for your money, considering you could spend $300 more and have a 190-37 that doesn’t have all of the quality compromises that the 180 series comes with.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A Silver Flair, even a UMI one, would not sound like it had a sock in it unless something was badly wrong. I assume a leaking spit key would be noticed by a band director, so in all likelihood, the valves leak badly - could simply be wear, could be a damaged piston port leaking to the vent hole, or, I have encountered a few, a pinpoint dent & hole in a knuckle between the valves.


He only played this one a few min, so I don't know if he was looking for anything. He didnt' seem to catch anything on it, but said he def wouldn't pay 1700 for it new. This was played by someone 30 years ago in high school, but it still looks nice. It just has a sorta muffled sound. It isn't muffled to the point of covering the bell, but it just sounds really stuffy compared to the Bundy and Bach we had on hand. I noticed it the first day I got it (shipped to me) and tried it. I prefer the sound of the $200 Jean-Paul trumpet my daughter plays. Glad I only gave $100 lol.

Quote:

As for your choice: If you read any of my writings (book, website, posts) you will see that Bach has always been very open with me sharing both their strengths and their embarrassments equally. Adams is very secretive. Having played a lot of Bachs (not so much Adams, but have encountered a couple that I cannot fault), without trying first I would definitely go with the Bach 190-37. If nothing else I could resell it. But based on my own experience, and all I learned from Roy Hempley about prior Bach generations before he passed, it is my opinion that the Bachs built today, especially the 190-series, will one day be higher regarded than any others.

I've only recently started looking and reading, so I'm sorry I haven't yet. I will take a look.

The band director said the newest stuff is really good by them, but the last several generations are not the best. You have to go back to before the strike into the 60s and 70s to get really good again. His looks older, but plays very well. He was in the Air Force band (joined just to play in it), and he set some new standards for some very hard music when he played for his final for his doctorate. I don't know all the details, but I know of the story. The school recorded it and said it was the new benchmark for other players. I'll have to get the piece title again. He never talks about all this, but his wife sure is proud of him! lol She was there.

I trust his opinion greatly, but he doesn't know about Adam trumpets so I turn to you guys for help!
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I could get a near-new 19037 for $2100 that is probably what I would go for. For high school students it can be nice to stick with something more vanilla. Adams is a big player with a reputation in Europe, but still pretty new in the States in the last few years. I don't know resale on instruments but I think with the Bach you could sell for close to what you paid for it if your daughter has something she really wants down the road. You could also show her the threads and let her decide.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
As for your choice: If you read any of my writings (book, website, posts) you will see that Bach has always been very open with me sharing both their strengths and their embarrassments equally. Adams is very secretive. Having played a lot of Bachs (not so much Adams, but have encountered a couple that I cannot fault), without trying first I would definitely go with the Bach 190-37. If nothing else I could resell it. But based on my own experience, and all I learned from Roy Hempley about prior Bach generations before he passed, it is my opinion that the Bachs built today, especially the 190-series, will one day be higher regarded than any others.


That's a bit of Bach Kool-Aid.

They're fine horns, but they're not THAT special.

Personally, without trying first, I'd get something that's not a Bach. But, that's me. But, maybe the 190's are different. The ones I've played weren't, though - though that hasn't been many.

I feel like with Bach, you're always throwing darts at the board. When you get to play things, that clarifies things. Other makes are less.... variable. I won't go into them, so as to not complicate things further.

Without trying I'd definitely go 190 over 180, though.

A couple of finals points to try to uncomplicate things.

- Your kid won't care that much about resale, they just want a better instrument. So, don't give that part of it that much weight. I'd say that regardless of which horn is more expensive. Any of them will lose value as used, it won't matter that much.

- $1000 or 700 dollars difference seems significant, now, but if your kid is serious and gets a lot of mileage out of the horn, it won't seem significant. How much that money matters to you now, only you can answer. I'm not saying it doesn't matter, I'm just giving context on how to look at it.

My parents bought my Yamaha 6335S for me in 1990 for like... $800 I think (I still have a receipt somewhere). There was a Bach for $900 or something and a Getzen for $700 - but I liked the Yamaha. I played on it, very hard for 20 years as a fairly serious semi-professional player. I play other horns, now, (and less seriously) but still have it and could still play it. It was good value.

To be clear, with these last thoughts I'm not trying to push one horn over another, just offering thoughts. I'd say the same things if the Adams was the cheaper horn.

- This seems like a momentous decision, but honestly, all of these are good choices. Your kid will probably like any of the ones mentioned here. They're all excellent professional trumpets that will the job and no doubt, better than a Jean Paul student horn.

Would things have turned out differently I had gotten a Bach or Getzen instead of a Yamaha? Probably not. I might have different taste in horns than I do now, maybe. But, that's about it - and I'm not even sure about that.

- So, stay calm, think, relax and just get the horn that seems like the right one, I guess - whatever one that is. Playing is always the answer, so do that if possible.

PS - There's a fellow named Jim Becker who works at Osmun Music in Boston. One of the services that they offer is to get socks out of horns that are stuffy. Might be worth looking into for your Silver Flair. Is that a vintage Silver Flair from the 1970's or one of the more recent ones? If it's an older ones, it might be a hidden gem that just needs some tweaking.

Maybe someone will chime in on Adams A2 vs Bach actual playing thoughts.

Good luck and have fun.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just looked it up. This may have just got interesting. The Serial appears to be 307,907. The Con selmer site puts that in the early 1950s.

“1950-1955 305,001 - 340,000”

What does that mean?


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Location: Utah, USA

PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Refine your list, and do all you can to try all of them before you buy. Whichever one you like most, get it. I tried 20+ fantastic horns in depth and ended up with my Artisan. But beware, not all Artisans are the same. I tried four, and one was awful compared to the rest.
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Winghorn
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 2156
Location: Olympia, Washington

PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would buy the Bach. They sound wonderful and so many professional trumpet players still use them, in spite of newer brands claiming to be "better" or "custom made".

I am sure Adams makes fine instruments, but Bach has withstood the test of time and is widely and successfully played by trumpeters of all experience and ability levels.

Everyone has an opinion, but some who offer theirs may not have that much experience or expertise on the trumpet. Most of the time on this forum you just don't know...

When someone says "Adams produces a higher quality product overall", that is just one person's opinion.

My suggestions are likewise my own and others will surely disagree. So-o-o-o, why not enlist the help of your teacher or other fine player in selecting an instrument?
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Brassnose
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Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2020
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also: the marketplace is full of good horns, so why not get a used one (or two) from there? If you or your daughter don’t like it, you can always sell it again. Nice thing about it, you shouldn’t lose money unless you beat up the horn. So: buy one, play it, see if it works. If not, buy another one, sell the first one, and so on. That’s what I do for my fun horns - I don’t want horns that just lie around. If you look for good quality horns you should find a good/fitting one rather quickly.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, Curry
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