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RL Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2009 Posts: 162
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 11:05 am Post subject: Short shank moutpiece |
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I bought an old shepherd's crook cornet which came with a Dennis Wick 2 short shank mouthpiece. It sounds almost like a Flugelhorn. Which short shank mouthpiece gives a similar but more brilliant sound and plays easier in the high register ?
Thank you in advance for your replies. |
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Mike Prestage Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 722 Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 11:38 am Post subject: |
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It's hard to generalise because how you play and what mouthpiece(s) you're used to will have a huge effect on your results with any mouthpiece that you might try. Then there's the whole issue of exactly what the cornet sound in your head is, and how that relates to your sound on your main instrument and mouthpiece...
FWIW I think the Yamaha 11E4 would be a sensible place to start if you're generally OK with rim diameters a bit smaller than a 3C. What mouthpiece do you use on your main horn?
BTW, the Wick 2 is an incredibly unforgiving mouthpiece but will probably be even more so on some instruments than others. It would be interesting to know what cornet you have.
Mike |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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From folks I know who have gone there, it takes some serious time to adjust to a proper cornet with a proper BBB-type mouthpiece like the Wick. With some diligence, you may find your range recovers somewhat. If you don't care about the BBB-type sound then you could try any of the standard Yamaha pieces. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Shifty Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2013 Posts: 250 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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Then there's the Wick 2B, if your only objections to the 2 are what you stated. _________________ Getzen Eterna 700, Eterna 800
Conn Connstellation 28A, Victor 80A, Connqueror (1903)
ACB Doubler Flugelhorn |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1830 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Check out Curry Mouthpieces.
Shepherd's Crook does not have to be British Band - try his VC Vintage Cornet series. For more of a BB sound try his BBC - a mouthpiece in the BB style but not as deep. Quite a few sizes to pick from.
Of course the Yamaha series mentioned above might be a good choice - they are priced right. |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2349 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Why do you assume you need to use a short-shank mouthpiece? _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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RL Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2009 Posts: 162
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for your advises so far....
Mike Prestage...you asked me which mouthpieces I use:
Warburton 3MD/9* - B trumpet
Warburton 3D/11 - C Trumpet
(Cornet is a Sterling with two triggers but not the Virtuoso model)
As I said ...it came with a Dennis Wick 2...I've a JK 1C 3.8 which I use
when I'm a guest player in a Brassband.(on cornets owned by the band).
But (soundwise) it's not a match with this particular cornet and I must say that the short shanked matches better. |
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Mike Prestage Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 722 Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 3:07 am Post subject: |
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You're welcome
The thing about cornet shank length is that - historically - there was a pretty neat division between specialised cornet mouthpieces which were consistently shorter, and trumpet-derived mouthpieces which were consistently longer. However, if you're looking at the whole range of cornet-specific mouthpiece designs available now, many of them have long shanks e.g. Curry BBC series. Trumpet-derived cornet mouthpieces still almost invariably have long shanks. The only exception I know of is the Yamaha 11C4S and they seem to have sold very few of them.
Here in the UK, most of the Wick sizes are very common. The Yamaha 11E4 and 16E are also around in large numbers because of Yamaha including them with cornets. That gives these mouthpieces a big practical advantage for someone who's just bought their first cornet - you can easily find cheap used ones on Ebay, through Facebook etc. I'd expect a similar situation in other countries with strong brass band scenes but if banding is more of a niche thing where you live, this stuff might be irrelevant.
The Wick mouthpieces have an unusual rim shape which many people don't like but if the 2 feels OK on your chops then other Wicks will probably be fine. The 2 is the most extreme mouthpiece they make so any of the others should get you closer to what you're looking for. The 3 and 3B would be the closest match in diameter to your Warburton 3 tops. The 3B would probably be the best one to try first based on what you've written. (BTW, I've never personally felt that Denis Wick's mouthpieces deserve their reputation, and I doubt many posters here will recommend them, but some of the best cornet players in the world use them so it's complicated!)
The Yamaha 16E is a similar diameter to your Warburton 3 tops but it doesn't strike me as an obvious choice based on what you've written. The 11E4 is completely different (not a narrower version of the 16E) and as a mainly-trumpet player I really like it but it may feel too narrow on your chops. It's the same sort of diameter as a Bach 7C but doesn't have the 7C rim shape that feels so cramped for many players. It compares well to the Warburton 5 and 6 rims.
If you live somewhere where you can try a wide range of mouthpieces and you don't mind possibly ending up with something quite expensive, I'd add the Sparx mouthpieces to the list of possibilities. (Incidentally, they're long shank designs.) I don't have any experience of them but it's also worth mentioning the Warburton BC series tops and backbores. Thinking of Warburton, you might also find a combination that works for you out of their main, trumpet-oriented range - all the standard backbores are available in a cornet version.
Mike |
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GordonH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2893 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 2:36 am Post subject: |
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There is a bit of a move towards longer shanks for cornet mouthpieces. The K&G ones are quite long too to balance out the cup with the backbone. The Alliance mouthpiece are a bit longer than the Wick ones. The Alliance A cup mouthpieces are not as deep as the wick no letter but they are still V shaped. _________________ Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
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p76 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 1070 Location: The Golden City of OZ
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Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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A Wick 2 is a bucket. If you want something more manageable, the Wick 4B is pretty standard, as are the Yamaha mpcs that Mike mentioned. The Yams in particular are easy and cheap to find secondhand, and are good mpcs (I particularly like the "David King" mpc.).
I think shank length is not critical to the sound you can get - I play a Curry BBC (because I am one of those people who can't get on with the Wick rim) in a section of Wicks and have no problem.
Personally I'd look around for a second hand Yam mpc and see how you go.
Cheers,
Roger _________________ Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9364 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Look at the Wick 4B or a Curry 3BBC. The Curry will be slightly brighter and easier to play than the Wick 4B, and the Wick 4B is brighter and easier to play than the Wick 2, if that’s what you’re looking for. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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