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Trumpet mouthpiece, french horn rim



 
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 4:08 pm    Post subject: Trumpet mouthpiece, french horn rim Reply with quote

I known this is an odd question but are there mouthpieces around that have that super thin, very round french horn type rim? I recently started learning french horn and am finding to my surprise that I feel more comfortable and secure on a french horn mouthpiece. Yes, if I leave it on my face too long it will start to dig in, but at the same time, I feel like I need less mouthpiece pressure while actually playing.

Actually, I kind of feel a lot more comfortable playing horn in general, even though it's still early days.

Anyway... Ideas?
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dangerous question. I fell in love again with horn. Love the mouthpieces and all the choices. Getting something like that for trumpet means a skeletonized mouthpiece. Very low mass is what you are looking for. I've looked and have found very little. I'll be following your search.

There are vintage mouthpieces that are similar, but that means a whole lot of Ebay buying and trying and time.
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Dave CCM/SSO
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt Frost at Frost Custom Brass can make you a mouthpiece with any rim you want, in any diameter you want. Check him out!
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may be the rim or mouthpiece, but honestly it is probably the instrument (trumpet vs french horn). I find pretty much every larger instrument (trombone, flugelhorn, etc.) a lot easier on the embouchure, and my understanding is this relates to bore size, volume, etc. There are definitely quite thin type mouthpieces and you could also do the adapter thing (play a french horn piece on trumpet). I think you're going to find the challenge is the instrument.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
Dangerous question. I fell in love again with horn. Love the mouthpieces and all the choices. Getting something like that for trumpet means a skeletonized mouthpiece. Very low mass is what you are looking for. I've looked and have found very little. I'll be following your search.

There are vintage mouthpieces that are similar, but that means a whole lot of Ebay buying and trying and time.


The closest I've come is the marcink CG personal, but even that one seems a bit wider than a horn rim.

There's also the Marcink Anchor Grip but I haven't tried on of those
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chapahi
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard that Horst Fischer, a legendary German trumpet player, had a french horn rim (some say hunting horn rim) made into a trumpet mouthpiece. It probably was a shallow cup as he was notably a high note specialist.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

French horn mpc rims typically have a larger inner diameter than trpt mpc. And the 'high notes' on FH are of lower pitch than trpt (so you might be using less rim pressure).
The typical FH mpc position is different than trpt - FH often has mpc much higher on the upper lip.

Another item/concern is that the usually desired 'sound quality' of FH is much different than trpt - it is usually a mistake to strive for a 'trpt-like' sound from a FH.
If you want to play high, fast, loud -> trpt
low and loud -> t-bone
sound really good -> FH
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumpetingbynurture wrote:
Richard III wrote:
Dangerous question. I fell in love again with horn. Love the mouthpieces and all the choices. Getting something like that for trumpet means a skeletonized mouthpiece. Very low mass is what you are looking for. I've looked and have found very little. I'll be following your search.

There are vintage mouthpieces that are similar, but that means a whole lot of Ebay buying and trying and time.


The closest I've come is the marcink CG personal, but even that one seems a bit wider than a horn rim.

There's also the Marcink Anchor Grip but I haven't tried on of those


The Marcinkiewicz also has a higher alpha angle. One of the great things about horn mouthpieces is that steep drop into the cup.
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Johnny-Highnote
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe try a verry shallow FH mpc (bore Size not bigger than 4mm) with Adapter
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an intriguing notion. But as a fellow French horn doubler, I strongly suspect that your impressions are not so much to do with the mouthpiece as with the instrument.

I too notice that I can play the horn with relatively less effort and have MUCH better endurance and (relative) range on it. If I could translate any fraction of that to the trumpet I'd be in hog heaven. Let me know if you find out how.
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Richard III
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
It's an intriguing notion. But as a fellow French horn doubler, I strongly suspect that your impressions are not so much to do with the mouthpiece as with the instrument.

I too notice that I can play the horn with relatively less effort and have MUCH better endurance and (relative) range on it. If I could translate any fraction of that to the trumpet I'd be in hog heaven. Let me know if you find out how.


Early cornet with early cornet mouthpiece. The mouthpieces were very narrow rim paired with a deep V cup. That paired with a small bore cornet makes playing a way different experience.

Also, I've tried trumpet with french horn mouthpiece and adapter. Awful in every way.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard III wrote:
cheiden wrote:
It's an intriguing notion. But as a fellow French horn doubler, I strongly suspect that your impressions are not so much to do with the mouthpiece as with the instrument.

I too notice that I can play the horn with relatively less effort and have MUCH better endurance and (relative) range on it. If I could translate any fraction of that to the trumpet I'd be in hog heaven. Let me know if you find out how.


Early cornet with early cornet mouthpiece. The mouthpieces were very narrow rim paired with a deep V cup. That paired with a small bore cornet makes playing a way different experience.

Also, I've tried trumpet with french horn mouthpiece and adapter. Awful in every way.

I'm not doubting that there may be trumpet/cornet mouthpieces that may more closely approximate that of a typical French horn. What I'm suspecting is that it won't bring any of the perceived advantages of the horn to the trumpet. The blow of the two instruments is much much different.
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Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schilke makes a few stock mouthpieces with a #2 rim - different diameters. Why not try them first before having a custom rim made.

What mouthpiece are you currently using?

I went the opposite route - had a french horn mouthpiece made with a trumpet rim.
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romajore
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Joined: 17 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I double on French horn, alto horn, mellophonium and mellophone. All are easier on the chops than the trumpet, but I don’t think it has much to do with the mouthpiece. If I remember, no promises these days, the Curry vintage cornet (VC) mouthpiece has a thinner, rounder rim and more v shaped cup.

Best wishes in your search.
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homebilly
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CG Personal
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

homebilly wrote:
CG Personal


Sorry - I missed that in your above post.
It's a tad larger in diameter with a smaller V cup - but the Bach 5MV.

Then maybe the Schilke 16 C2 - bigger diameter - smaller cup.

Check it on the old Kanstul Comparator

http://www.kanstul.com/MPcompare/MouthpieceComparator.html
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