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yugga
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:06 pm    Post subject: Made in Taiwan Reply with quote

Apart from Carol are there other Taiwanese brands or indeed shops that have their own brands made by carol / hoxon gakki ?
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Goby
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jupiter is in Taiwan, but they are not affiliated with Hoxon Gakki (to my knowledge)


The list of makers who use CarolBrass parts are: Harrelson, Warburton, Thane, Taylor, Adams, J Landress, Puje, NYTC, Larson, and DaCarbo

I think Schagerl's intermediate line is even assembled and finished in Taiwan as well. Adams uses Carol blocks on their "marching" trumpets and "sonic" flugelhorn. Dacarbo uses a whole CarolBrass flugelhorn with the bell flare replaced with a carbon fiber flare.


CarolBrass blocks are quite good, probably the best one-piece valve casing on the market today.


Last edited by Goby on Thu Dec 07, 2023 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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austincustombrass
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just adding that our Manchester Brass line (we're sole North American distributors for these) is made at the HG factory as well. Very solid products at fair prices.

-Trent
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They don't emphasize it and they won't say it directly, but Mauriat's 1st gen seem to be Carolbrass (or Carolbrass plus other makers). I have their 600, which was the model used by Alexis Baro. He now has a version with Carolbrass that uses the same leadpipe and has said on youtube I think that his original Mauriat was made by Carol. That said, they do have a range of models and their newest one uses a titanium detachable bell. I don't think they make it themselves but I'm not sure that Carol makes it.
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DJtpt31
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goby wrote:

CarolBrass blocks are quite good, probably the best one-piece valve casing on the market today. However, it does irk me that some brands will charge exorbitant amounts of money for horns built with $300 valve blocks and $50 bells...


⬆︎This⬆︎
And that's why I don't understand the trumpet market.
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Goby
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote:
They don't emphasize it and they won't say it directly, but Mauriat's 1st gen seem to be Carolbrass (or Carolbrass plus other makers). I have their 600, which was the model used by Alexis Baro. He now has a version with Carolbrass that uses the same leadpipe and has said on youtube I think that his original Mauriat was made by Carol. That said, they do have a range of models and their newest one uses a titanium detachable bell. I don't think they make it themselves but I'm not sure that Carol makes it.


The most recent P. Mauriat looks to have Spiri valves (that, or spiri buys valves from Mauriat). The block, braces, and trim on the PMT-75 is identical to my DaCarbo Unica, which is supposedly built by Spiri. I’ve seen at least one Spada with the same block. DaCarbo uses Carolbrass bodies for their flugelhorns, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they outsourced parts for their less expensive models. It’s a very nice valve block and is a 2-piece casing with steel pistons. On another note, the titanium-copper alloy they use in the bell is primarily copper, not pure titanium. It’s more akin to Schilke’s beryllium bronze bells, although titanium copper is supposed to be stronger. Warburton offered a titanium bell at one point, although I think it was brass that was then coated in a titanium finish.
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Goby
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJtpt31 wrote:
Goby wrote:

CarolBrass blocks are quite good, probably the best one-piece valve casing on the market today. However, it does irk me that some brands will charge exorbitant amounts of money for horns built with $300 valve blocks and $50 bells...


⬆︎This⬆︎
And that's why I don't understand the trumpet market.


Builders are entitled to charge a premium for their time spent designing, researching, and building their products, but there is a limit for what I’d consider to be a reasonable markup.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goby wrote:
HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote:
They don't emphasize it and they won't say it directly, but Mauriat's 1st gen seem to be Carolbrass (or Carolbrass plus other makers). I have their 600, which was the model used by Alexis Baro. He now has a version with Carolbrass that uses the same leadpipe and has said on youtube I think that his original Mauriat was made by Carol. That said, they do have a range of models and their newest one uses a titanium detachable bell. I don't think they make it themselves but I'm not sure that Carol makes it.


The most recent P. Mauriat looks to have Spiri valves (that, or spiri buys valves from Mauriat). The block, braces, and trim on the PMT-75 is identical to my DaCarbo Unica, which is supposedly built by Spiri. I’ve seen at least one Spada with the same block. DaCarbo uses Carolbrass bodies for their flugelhorns, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they outsourced parts for their less expensive models. It’s a very nice valve block and is a 2-piece casing with steel pistons. On another note, the titanium-copper alloy they use in the bell is primarily copper, not pure titanium. It’s more akin to Schilke’s beryllium bronze bells, although titanium copper is supposed to be stronger. Warburton offered a titanium bell at one point, although I think it was brass that was then coated in a titanium finish.


I think maybe we discussed this in the past? I also have a trumpet with braces/design that are nearly identical to Spiri/Spada that is actually what I thought was a different maker (Mr. Wu/ Champion music). Mine is a "Harmonie." That said, maybe he works with Carol also. I think in Taiwan there are several makers going now, but I only really know Jupiter and Carolbrass. In the past, I've also sometimes heard from other folk with similar instruments. For instance, my Mauriat 600 has a bell engraving and design that seems like it is used in other trumpets.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CarolBrass does amazing work, and the list they supply parts to is longer than you can imagine. Their valves are incredible. They also boast a list of configuration options for trumpet making (special order) that only Bach equals.
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone got a clue where S E Shires gets the parts for their Bravo line? I seem to have fallen for a shiny thing recently, not really sure if I am falling in love or on the verge of a bad case of splurger's remorse!

I seem to remember it came from mainland China but not sure. Intonation is pretty darn good. Has some nice overtones. It may not like my preference for big cup mouthpieces. I was hoping for more edge in the blow.
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
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Goby
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huntman10 wrote:
Anyone got a clue where S E Shires gets the parts for their Bravo line? I seem to have fallen for a shiny thing recently, not really sure if I am falling in love or on the verge of a bad case of splurger's remorse!

I seem to remember it came from mainland China but not sure. Intonation is pretty darn good. Has some nice overtones. It may not like my preference for big cup mouthpieces. I was hoping for more edge in the blow.


Shires Bravo are made at the Eastman factory in mainland China. They produce very high quality horns there, though maybe not as nice as an American boutique like Shires.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huntman10 wrote:
Anyone got a clue where S E Shires gets the parts for their Bravo line? I seem to have fallen for a shiny thing recently, not really sure if I am falling in love or on the verge of a bad case of splurger's remorse!

I seem to remember it came from mainland China but not sure. Intonation is pretty darn good. Has some nice overtones. It may not like my preference for big cup mouthpieces. I was hoping for more edge in the blow.


Shires went under - got bought - is Eastman now (Jaishan PRC)
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www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Goby and OldSchoolEuphonium.

I am liking it better after a few hours tonight.

But the rest of the Summer will be on Eb cornet, or occasional pic parts.

And fishing with the grandsons between Sunday concerts!


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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.
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Subtropical and Subpar
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
huntman10 wrote:
Anyone got a clue where S E Shires gets the parts for their Bravo line? I seem to have fallen for a shiny thing recently, not really sure if I am falling in love or on the verge of a bad case of splurger's remorse!

I seem to remember it came from mainland China but not sure. Intonation is pretty darn good. Has some nice overtones. It may not like my preference for big cup mouthpieces. I was hoping for more edge in the blow.


Shires went under - got bought - is Eastman now (Jaishan PRC)


True enough, but their pro horns are still made in Massachusetts, valve blocks and all. Their factory was featured on one of the local news stations two years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6kWAJqv-c8
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1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

austincustombrass wrote:
Just adding that our Manchester Brass line (we're sole North American distributors for these) is made at the HG factory as well. Very solid products at fair prices.

-Trent


I own one. A great band horn with fast valves, an easy blow and a nice sound. Been playing mine mostly with the band these past 4 years or so. Fantastic value for the buck.
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GeorgeB
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Divitt Trumpets
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goby wrote:


The most recent P. Mauriat looks to have Spiri valves (that, or spiri buys valves from Mauriat). The block, braces, and trim on the PMT-75 is identical to my DaCarbo Unica, which is supposedly built by Spiri.


Spiri makes everything for the spiri brand in house, even their plating is done in house. I visited their shop a few years ago and it is an incredible shop with so much packed in to such a small place. They make amazing instruments.
The cheaper model of the decarbo trumpet uses Carol blocks.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
their pro horns are still made in Massachusetts, valve blocks and all. Their factory was featured on one of the local news stations two years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6kWAJqv-c8


I hear this often, but there are posts here, as there were on TM, from the guys who worked at Shires when it went under and all lost their jobs.

I have seen first hand the abysmal workmanship on Eastman's top of the line "Ventus" model prior to a complete overhaul here to make it marketable: guide slots saw-toothed from no deburring that hack into the upside down guides, warped casings from a bad assembly process, poor soldering, blotchy silver - a mess. Is the Mass facility making, or just re-making?

I should mention I suppose that the Ventus design is/was actually a really nice playing horn - once you effectively rebuilt it to make up for the tragic manufacturing. I believe it is a Shires design (very LT180-37-ish, but more responsive and a bit brighter).
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www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are two of the Harmonie trumpets for sale on facebook marketplace in Taiwan:
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/364402821420194/

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2538523736448863/

This is the Champion music page:
https://www.facebook.com/iamchampiontrumpet

I really like my trumpet by them. I think they're a separate maker from Carol, and I think they do make parts for other makers. I had a chance to buy one of their C trumpets a few months ago and missed it and kind of regretting it now.

I think the last time we discussed Spirit/Spada in the past, one of the questions was whether they really make everything or if they might be sourcing braces, water keys, bells, etc., from Taiwan. IDK.
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Subtropical and Subpar
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
their pro horns are still made in Massachusetts, valve blocks and all. Their factory was featured on one of the local news stations two years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6kWAJqv-c8


I hear this often, but there are posts here, as there were on TM, from the guys who worked at Shires when it went under and all lost their jobs.

I have seen first hand the abysmal workmanship on Eastman's top of the line "Ventus" model prior to a complete overhaul here to make it marketable: guide slots saw-toothed from no deburring that hack into the upside down guides, warped casings from a bad assembly process, poor soldering, blotchy silver - a mess. Is the Mass facility making, or just re-making?

I should mention I suppose that the Ventus design is/was actually a really nice playing horn - once you effectively rebuilt it to make up for the tragic manufacturing. I believe it is a Shires design (very LT180-37-ish, but more responsive and a bit brighter).


Yes, they went under almost a decade ago now. Eastman bought them out and kept their factory in Holliston, MA untouched, just as they had with a very high end flute manufacturer it had bought out earlier. See https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-BANKB-19772. I used to live a few miles from it. I know people who work there now. Their flagship horns (i.e. not the Q horns) are made stateside. Here's a half hour video Shires posted on Youtube a few months ago giving a tour of their Massachusetts factory and showing how they make their instruments from raw brass and nickel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njWitow40Vw&t=302s
_________________
1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel
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Goby
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Divitt Trumpets wrote:
Goby wrote:


The most recent P. Mauriat looks to have Spiri valves (that, or spiri buys valves from Mauriat). The block, braces, and trim on the PMT-75 is identical to my DaCarbo Unica, which is supposedly built by Spiri.


Spiri makes everything for the spiri brand in house, even their plating is done in house. I visited their shop a few years ago and it is an incredible shop with so much packed in to such a small place. They make amazing instruments.
The cheaper model of the decarbo trumpet uses Carol blocks.


I have the Unica (cheaper) model DaCarbo trumpet, and it is definitely not built on a Carol block. DaCarbo flugels have a very strong resemblance to CarolBrass, but the casing on my trumpet is most certainly 2-piece. It looks slightly different from the older models, which are stamped W. Spiri above the valve block. This one just has the serial number. The newer TML model DaCarbo is $1000 cheaper than the Toni Maier signature model and has the same block as the Unica, which is why I was suspicious that they had outsourced their valve block construction.
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