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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12647
Location: Gardena, Ca

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J. Landress Brass wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
J. Landress Brass wrote:
I have used Carol valve blocks in about 10 horns I have made over the years, this was the valve block only and not slides. Everything else I made. I have been working on a series of 5 trumpets slowly over the past few months and am using Bauerfeind blocks. Everything else I am cutting and making myself.

As for other makers, many use Carol valves and which are extremely well made especially for the price. I know some of these builders also use Carol bells which are also very well made and extremely inexpensive. I see no issue in builders or makers using Carol parts as long as they are not claiming them are "making" them themselves.

In my opinion, builders don’t need to identify the source of the parts they use either. I do acknowledge that some people have a desire/need to know, but for me…


I feel it's important as I believe a consumer should know what they are buying or selling. Sadly over the years I've been doing this I've seen people ripped off or sold smoke and mirrors. I recently had someone contact me about selling a horn they purchased for several thousand dollars claiming it was a "hand made" trumpet. I had never heard of the brand before and the horn was just another inexpensive Chinese horn.

That all being said, Carol makes and outstanding product and people using them should be proud to use such quality parts.

I don't disagree. My thoughts are:

First, I tend to stick with name brand horns. Bach, Yamaha, Kanstul, Getzen, Conn. I might consider a custom horn, but honestly the horns I have are good enough for my ability.

All of these companies have reputations that make me comfortable without knowing the source of their parts. If they choose to share, fine, but I personally don't need it.

I guess I look at it more along the lines of a car or appliance. I don't really care where their components are sourced either.

But I do very much care about the quality and durability of the products I purchase. Based on what I know about the Landress Brass company and ACB, I would have no issue purchasing from either of you. Knowing where you source your products adds nothing to my decision making as I trust you to choose wisely in order to keep your hard earned reputation.

But I do recognize that others want more details.
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Getzen
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 1907

PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no issue at all with manufacturers sourcing parts from other company's at all levels. Heck, we sell valve sections, tubing, bells, etc... to several builders. There is nothing wrong with knowing your own limitations and sourcing from someone that can do it better than you.

My issues are the builders that:
1) Claim they are doing all of the work themselves when they aren't.

2) Mark their products with "Made in the USA" in giant type and use the smallest font possible to add "From Globally Sourced Parts"

3) Purchase the most costly components (valve sections, bells) for a fraction of the cost of producing them in house, but still charge a premium for the finished horn.

4) Import a completed instrument for next to nothing with a premium name stenciled on it and charge for the name not the horn.

I get making money and profiting, but there is a difference in my mind between boosting your margins and just plain taking advantage.

Several years ago now we were in Shanghai at the Music China show visiting our Chinese distributor. While walking the show floor I was approached by a manufacturer offering to sell me trumpets. I could have bought from them complete, finished trumpets in a case with a mouthpiece delivered to Elkhorn with "Getzen" stamped on the bells with a minimum order of 10 units. All for less than I could make a student trumpet bell in house. The finished horn would have been roughly 1/10th of our cost on a 390 trumpet package. I saw that same trumpet for sale with other names on the bell for about 75% what a 390 sold for at retail. That is more than a healthy margin.

There are plenty of people out there doing it right. Up front about where they source from, charge accordingly, and put in work to make sure it's done right. But there are also plenty that stamp a fancy name on garbage and market it as something else.
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Brett Getzen
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Getzen Company

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wee steve
Regular Member


Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 76
Location: Cornwall UK

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few British companies openly use valve blocks from Hoxon.
I’ve had a chat and bought from these companies. Yes they do have a great relationship with them and do get the blocks to their dimensions etc.. they get a lot of blocks and have used them for years. I know Taylor offer the Getzen block too and Eclipse are selling MAW blocks too. It’s above board and completely transparent. I personally have an Eclipse on an old Beuarfiend block from my original eclipse, but the ones with Hoxon blocks are just as good and in my opinion are better than the blocks Bach and B&S use, I’ve never played a Getzen valve block but have heard they are amazing too.
_________________
Eclipse Celeste MY 2023
B & S Challenger flugelhorn

Previous horns:
Eclipse Celeste CLS MY
Eclipse LY (rear tuned)
Bach ML37
B & S Challenger ii
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