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Dichotomy between Double Pedal set-up / Spit buzzing set-up



 
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jicetp
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Joined: 30 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:26 am    Post subject: Dichotomy between Double Pedal set-up / Spit buzzing set-up Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I am experiencing great things with the Callet system but, alas there's a but I have pinpointed some issues that I 'd like to solve .

Double pedals : finally grasped the focused sound thing which is paramount for further exploration ( upwards )

Spit Buzz : same thing. The more the focus the less air needed, the faster the vibration is happening .


To me the main issue I have is that the set-ups emerging from one or the other ' technique ' is different. I cant seem to have them ' overlap ' if you will.

And as this is the case, I am wondering which set-up to adopt !

For big sound I favor the double pedal thing, for higher range the spit buzzing.

I dont like to have to ' think ' what to play before I have to play.


I guess my question is :

will the two setup eventually merge into one set-up ?

Should I favor one upon the other ?

should I be happy with having a choice ?



thanks for your thoughts

JiCe
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kalijah
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double pedals?

What pitches are you referring to?
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wilder
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi. Something does not add up here. Jerry had a terrific embouchure. A wonderful mechanism that could go from double pedal C to almost triple C and back down again seamlessly. I would suggest tracking down one of his former students and take some lessons. Good luck! jw
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wilder wrote:
Hi. Something does not add up here. Jerry had a terrific embouchure. A wonderful mechanism that could go from double pedal C to almost triple C and back down again seamlessly. I would suggest tracking down one of his former students and take some lessons. Good luck! jw


I agree, waiting for the Callet forum moderator, I most humbly could add that the seamless blend of "einsetzen" and "ansetzen" also is the goal of the BE method.
Oh - I forgot: Precicely this amalgamation presents huge difficulties! Takes a while making it seamless....... No wonder you find it difficult. I suggest that you wait until the moderator arrives. There are some tricks of the trade!
Also I won´t hijack the thread for BE purposes

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Dave Converse
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalijah wrote:
Double pedals?

What pitches are you referring to?


Two octaves below low C.
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tptguy
Jerome Callet Forum Moderator


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
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Location: Philadelphia, Pa

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The double pedals are an exercise. Use them as warm up and warm down to loosen corners, focus sound, build a cushion, etc. Everything else, including all actual playing is done with the spit buzz.
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jicetp
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the suggestions.
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trumpetplanet
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Joined: 05 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tptguy wrote:
The double pedals are an exercise. Use them as warm up and warm down to loosen corners, focus sound, build a cushion, etc. Everything else, including all actual playing is done with the spit buzz.


This is how I see it. I do a few minutes of double pedals at the start of each day. The effect isn't too different from what many would attribute to lip flapping in a more traditional context or playing model. I think they're more effective (for me) and a very efficient way of achieving homeostasis.
When it comes to playing - like Kyle said: the closer everything feels to spit buzzing, the better you're playing, the easier you'll play and the better you'll sound.

JiCe, I know you've picked up some of my stuff in the past, but without looking it up I don't know if that includes my double pedal tone book. If you don't have it then send me an email and I'll send a free copy your way.
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jicetp
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpetplanet :

Hi Rich ! I did indeed get some stuff ( maybe the whole package ) from you ! Great stuff.

I think now I understand what to focus on : the spit buzzing.

I wish the spit buzzing will eventually lead to the sound I have in the low range coming from the double pedals, if that makes sense.

Thanks for your help guys[/quote]
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Mac Gollehon
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was brought to my attention by a trumpet player seeking advice on MSC that pertained to a post here. I read it and felt the need to comment on the statement presented regarding double pedals “the effect isn’t too much different than what many would attribute to lip flapping in a more traditional context or playing model.” First off there was little of any of Jeromes concepts that were considered traditional. Lip flapping was never his intent. I knew him thru the phases of Trumpet Yoga,Superchops,MSC and double pedals done in a VERY specific way was always the foundation to his approach as well as tongue thru the teeth. These two details were always prevalent in his approach and can’t be ignored if any success whatsoever is to be achieved by any of the aforementioned concepts. Details of the function and sound of the double pedals was the one constant that left no option of being changed,compromised,neglected nor open to interputation. I just felt the need to clarify this to set it straight and alleviate any confusion.The double pedal must be totally perfect in functional process including going to all other registers up and down to achieve any real benefits from Jerome Callets systems. Few ever got the double pedal register right and with the correct sound and pitch consistency. It sounds like a contra bass clarinet. Intense vibration that only the perfect formation will produce.
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trumpetplanet
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mac,

Thanks for chiming in to clear this up. I think that the sentence of mine is very easy to misinterpret when taken as a stand-alone statement and does not reflect my intentions when writing it.
I did not intend to say that playing double pedals was in any way like lip flapping. I only meant that it can cause increased bloody flow to the lips and help to ease some morning stiffness. Although these things are obviously not the intention of Jerome's Trumpet Yoga book, it is an added benefit nonetheless.

I'm quite surprised to hear you say that many couldn't get the right sound for these notes. I spent some time working on the concept with Bahb Civiletti, who also knew Jerome for many years.
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Mac Gollehon
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi TrumpetPlanet-Thanks yes in regards to the sound in the double pedals during Jeromes Trumpet Yoga phase as I said was like a contra bass clarinet but thinking further on it the sound was more metallic than that and extremely compact center. No one I saw got that sound as they were too tight in the corners or stretched,thinned out. Many students were loud but unfocused ,Blatty and spread in that register and it carried over throughout the other registers. He encouraged relaxed corners but certainly not relaxed cheek muscles or chin. It was about bringing bottom lip up at least to midpoint of top teeth all the way across and that included pulling up into the side teeth as well. All this while pulling top lip down and bottom lip up using chin muscles resembling a rounded pad creating greater compression and relying largely on vibration of soft inner surface of both lips. I took a couple hours to get it and as I said I didn’t hear that sound from any of the others and I heard most of them. That means something was missing in their setup. Even Jerome in his later years lost some of that brilliance in the double pedals compared to his Trumpet Yoga phase. But that stands to reason because of the systemic change in MSC. The role of the tounge being primarily the component for creating the desired resistance. That really changes things. It’s a lot of variables to coordinate and will effect sound.
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