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3c vs 7c mouthpiece playing wise (bach)



 
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TheAidanAU
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 6:01 pm    Post subject: 3c vs 7c mouthpiece playing wise (bach) Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

I have a 7c bach mouthpiece, and am getting a 3c in a couple of days. I was wondering how much of a difference playing-wise it would affect the horn. Currently, I am struggling with high notes (anything past the G above the staff). Also, I was wondering what the best mouthpieces are for all around playing/high notes.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you’re talking about Bach mouthpieces, the 3C is significantly more shallow than the 7C. The cup is slightly wider, but not much, and the rim is more comfortable for a lot of people. Higher notes will be a little easier, but the tone on it will be a bit brighter as a result of the shallow cup.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 6:21 am    Post subject: Re: 3c vs 7c mouthpiece playing wise (bach) Reply with quote

TheAidanAU wrote:
... Currently, I am struggling with high notes (anything past the G above the staff). Also, I was wondering what the best mouthpieces are for all around playing/high notes.

----------------------------------------------------
If the 3C fits your lips and teeth better than the 7C, then it might be helpful.

It's important to remember that 'you cannot buy skill' - and skill is the primary requirement for playing high notes. You need to learn good embouchure technique and develop the skill to DO it in a reliable (habitual) way.

It's also important to realize that 'bad sounding' high notes are not an advantage. A band director will generally not select music that has higher notes than can be played with good sound.
The player with a good sounding G, is preferred over someone with a 'screech' A or B.
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I view mouthpiece advice given without specific knowledge of your physical embouchure structure and lip size, and without watching and hearing your playing to be about as valuable as telling someone what size and model shoe they should wear without seeing or measuring their feet, or knowing what they will be doing. My favorite size 13 leather high top Red Wing workboots will not help you run a marathon!

We can offer general information about the quality and consistency of makes and models of mouthpieces, rim contours, cup volume, orifice numbers, backbore, shank tip, and receiver gap. And you might be impressed, or more likely bored.

Until your lips are squeezing up against the smooth rim of that shiny new silver plated 3c, our input is just hot air! It is always best to start in the "middle", which old Vincent Bach decreed is your 7C about 80 or so years ago, and work your way out from there. That first step is the 3C (and get a quality brand, not one of these anonymous lumps of metal with 3C scratched on it). The journey begins!

The first step of your journey will likely be, "so what, a little bigger, but I can't pop a super C yet." But keep playing, and just forget about trying those high notes. Don't go back to your 7C for a few weeks, unless you just can't play at all. After a few minutes, you will realize your sound IS bigger. "WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL THESE MONTHS?!"

And you will play until your chops are sore, and tomorrow it won't be as easy because you've overdone it!

Regardless, keep up with the new mouthpiece for about a month. But don't toss your old just yet. It is a process we all go through. But at your stage of this game, we would all suggest getting a little help from a teacher who can help.
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david johnson
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer my 7C over my 3C. A 5C is really good for me, too. I also dabble with the 1C and Stork 2C.
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gbdeamer
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: 3c vs 7c mouthpiece playing wise (bach) Reply with quote

TheAidanAU wrote:
Hello everyone,

I have a 7c bach mouthpiece, and am getting a 3c in a couple of days. I was wondering how much of a difference playing-wise it would affect the horn.



In the grand scheme of things, probably not a lot.

I've looked at some of your other posts and it seems that you're a newer player who wants to "play higher" (primarily for marching band).

To say that there have been hundreds of people like you looking for the same thing would be an understatement.

My recommendation to you would be to allow yourself plenty of time to get used to the 3C. It's a VERY common/popular choice for players who want to move on from a 7C, so there's no reason you can't be successful.

You're a kid so I'd also recommend making a goal this summer to exponentially practice more. Instead of 30 minutes a day make it 2 hours a day. That's going to do more for your endurance, range, tone, and overall ability than any equipment change ever would.

I've played next to MONSTERS who use stock 3C, 5C, etc mouthpieces and horns that are beat to hell.
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi TheAidanAu,
No big deal that you've bought a new mpc...either it will work better or it won't and I will bet that you will know that in 30 minutes or less. If you are concerned about mpc choice, I would suggest that you exchange mpcs with some friends of yours who play different sizes and try them. Either the 7c is for you or something bigger or smaller will be. My teacher used to have a box of old mpcs and we were free to try them out to find something we liked. Short trials should put you onto what is going to work best for you. Once you have an idea of the size you like best, you can buy something. Look around for a used mpc in good condition, if possible.
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improver
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer the sound and feel of the vfb 7c.
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SMrtn
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disclaimer - I am not a professional musician.

I agree with what Dale Proctor said about the 3c being brighter. I've only just yesterday begun playing with a 7c, having used a 3c exclusively for the past six months or so I guess. I'm staying with it, because of its darker tone, though it's taking some getting used to. And for me, and this is where I probably differ from what others are saying, higher notes are easier on the 7c.
Having said this, I use Curry pieces, but I expect it wouldn't make too much of a difference. I prefer Curry for a variety of reasons, but that is of no consequence to this discussion really (I think).
Re higher notes - I expect there are no easy solutions. The one solution that is virtually guaranteed to work though, is the P word. At least that's how I've found it.

Best of luck with it
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMrtn wrote:
Disclaimer - I am not a professional musician.

I agree with what Dale Proctor said about the 3c being brighter. I've only just yesterday begun playing with a 7c, having used a 3c exclusively for the past six months or so I guess. I'm staying with it, because of its darker tone, though it's taking some getting used to. And for me, and this is where I probably differ from what others are saying, higher notes are easier on the 7c.
Having said this, I use Curry pieces, but I expect it wouldn't make too much of a difference. I prefer Curry for a variety of reasons, but that is of no consequence to this discussion really (I think).
Re higher notes - I expect there are no easy solutions. The one solution that is virtually guaranteed to work though, is the P word. At least that's how I've found it.

Best of luck with it


I never got along with the 7C. I liked the playability of the 3C, but not the tone. I bought a Curry 3C., played it on a gig the day I received it in the mail, and never looked back. Great mouthpiece, with a much better sound.
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MarieF
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:46 am    Post subject: tangent mp question Reply with quote

For those who have had students, when do you advise that your student change mouthpieces? I'm asking out of curiosity. When I was young and taking private lessons throughout high school, I used the 7C that came with my Bach and then at one point, my teacher told me I needed to move to 5C. I don't remember the specific reason he gave. I'm guessing he thought my tone would be better.

I'm a returning player now and still have both mouthpieces and the 7C feels easier to start with after many years of not playing.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the 7C works for you then there is no compelling reason to play anything else. There used to be, and is some quarters there remains the notion that players must graduate to ever larger pieces. I'd advise ignoring that notion.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:04 am    Post subject: Re: tangent mp question Reply with quote

MarieF wrote:
... I'm guessing he thought my tone would be better.

I'm a returning player now and still have both mouthpieces and the 7C feels easier to start with after many years of not playing.

--------------------------
If tone is the concern and you are satisfied with the feel of the 7C rim, then I suggest trying a 7B or 7 - they have a slightly deeper cup which you might like.
_________________
going back to French horn!
Yamaha 668N, Holton DC mpc
The 'next note' is the most important one.
Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/2021_April_1_snow_web.jpg
April morning Surprise
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:18 am    Post subject: Re: tangent mp question Reply with quote

MarieF wrote:
For those who have had students, when do you advise that your student change mouthpieces? I'm asking out of curiosity. When I was young and taking private lessons throughout high school, I used the 7C that came with my Bach and then at one point, my teacher told me I needed to move to 5C. I don't remember the specific reason he gave. I'm guessing he thought my tone would be better.

I'm a returning player now and still have both mouthpieces and the 7C feels easier to start with after many years of not playing.


I have very seldom changed a student's mouthpiece. Fundamentals trump most mouthpiece choices. I do also believe that in general beginners should be on something somewhat easy to play and comfortable. I usually start students on Yamaha mouthpieces (a habit from when they were super cheap) and try an 11 or 11b4 depending on the student's dental structure. Flatter vs more rounded rim. Both very forgiving, both fairly neutral choices. Then it's fundamentals. On the odd occasion I have had students benefit from starting on 3c or 1.5c mouthpieces but they are in the minority. It is usually predicated by the teeth and lip - some cases of injury or dental anomaly can warrant the larger piece. Some people's faces do just work better like this, but in general I think it helps to choose something comfortable and easy to play and to focus on good form and developing fundamentals with a good teacher.

Students who are progressing strongly and have a decided mind on a trumpet based career path (a real minority of players) will probably warrant an investigation into gear somewhere between age 15-18. Assuming they are playing at diploma standard.

Good luck!
Mike
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delano
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bach_again has it right, a possible problem with the 7C for beginners is that it could be a little too deep in individual cases.
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