the new Martin comittee trumpet

Ajay · Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:39 am Post subject: the new Martin comittee trumpet

Dear All, firstly thanks for letting me join, great to be part of such a large worldwide community!.
I was wondering if any of you have got a trumpet or come a crossed this company.
Hes the grandson of the martin company's old owner.
I've always wanted a martin, but wasn't sure about getting second hand because I've heard some horror story's after shelling out $5000 and getting a dud.

https://www.martinbrasswind.com/

Great to hear back!

Thanks All

Divitt Trumpets · Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:59 am Post subject:

I've never played a modern committee that played like a vintage one.

I haven't heard of anyone playing these new ones, so the jury is out.
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Master Jabroni · Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:23 am Post subject:

I know someone who got one and had to have the valves rebuilt within a year. They were made at the end of the Kanstuk factory life.
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Ajay · Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:29 am Post subject:

Thanks fellas, it doesnt look like the kunstal one?.
I was going to get one of those, but they went bust before i could.
i read somewhere it was BAC that got all the kunstal factory stuff for there comittee

Divitt Trumpets · Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:25 am Post subject:

BAC did buy the Kanstul tooling.
I do not know if they are still making that committee though. Having the tooling is only a small part of being able to make the instrument, or continue where another factory left off.
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OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440

The Martin Brasswind Committee is now made by BAC in Kansas City for sale through that exclusive sales channel owned by Richard Martin.

It is a fourth generation of the Committee, not a copy of a prior design. The designers at BAC spent months obtaining data from exceptional samples of the prior generations of Martin Committee (including data from one of my own horns), linking the physical properties of each design to the playing characteristics those imbue the horn with. They then settled on a design concept to capture the dark rich Committee sound found in all generations, while charting a middle ground between the tight centering of many horns and the renowned super-loose nature of the second generation. The core of the horn was reworked using physics models to optimize the intonation tendencies in a manner best suited to the Committee market, probably achieving the best intonation profile yet for a Committee.

The sales channel itself is a bit of an odd plan, but it dates back to when Kanstul was building 1603s, and were contracted by Martin to build similar for him. Why I say odd, requires knowing the history:

In 1851, Gottfried Robert Martin, a student of Christian Hemming in Dresden, came to New York and began building instruments. He was joined in 1854 by his similarly trained brother Johann Heinrich (John Henry) Martin. Sometime in the 1858-1860 window, JH Martin moved to Chicago and began what I believe was a continental distribution operation for New York produced instruments, as no Martin marked Chicago has ever been found. That was destroyed in 1871, and JH returned to New York as shop superintendent at what Henry Distin termed their "monster" manufacturing works there at 31 Courtlandt Street. When Distin came to New York (after losing all his money from the sale of his firm to Boosey and tending bar for a living for a while) in 1876, JH was freed-up to spend 2 years at the fledgling CG Conn company learning about piston valve instruments - both brothers being exclusively trained in Saxon style rotaries. When Distin then got back into instrument making himself, JH returned to New York and stayed there until the firm, which never modernized its products, failed in 1885.

GR Martin ended his days as an assembler at a Detroit stencil maker, JH returned to Conn, bringing with him his sons including Henry Charles Martin, the future President of Martin Band Instrument Company, and Richard Martin's Great Grandfather. Martin BIC was founded in 1904 and reincorporated in 1905, as a partnership among several Martin siblings. By 1912, they were forced to sell the company to their young bookkeeper after years of sibling rivalries had paralyzed the business. That buyer, Francis Compton, brought in WJ Gronert (CG Conn, Peddler, Elkhart) who started turning things around, but died after a couple of years. The company then sold to OP Basset, who kept HC Martin as a figurehead president only until 1923.

The Martin Committee trumpet was created as an improvement upon the Martin Handcraft Imperial trumpet of the early 1930s in 1938. While a "Committee" of experts was supposedly consulted, the only designer on that team was Renold Schilke, who later referred to the design process as a "committee of one". Among the modification to the Imperial design were some recognizable elements from the Holton Llewellyn models Schilke had been involved with at the end of his apprenticeship.

Note that the Martin family had been out of the company for over 15 years when the Committee was first designed.

The Handcraft Committee slots solidly. Following WWII, the horn was redesigned and those slot very loose. Those 1950s Committees are the ones most often thought of, and sought after.

Following changes in ownership and the brief elimination of the Committee name, under Leblanc a third generation was designed by the great Larry Ramirez (also known for the Farkis French horn and Maynard models at Holton). Those were the last instruments to bear the Martin name at the end of the last century.

So given the reality of the creation and history of the Committee as a unique, and in this iteration still very recognizable, trumpet sound concept, I am not sure I see the sense in linking it to the Martin family - but that's the gimmick BAC inherited as yet another of the diverse and often unrelated projects that were going on at Kanstul. They just opted to get far more serious about the design than Kanstul had.
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Ajay · Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:48 am Post subject:

Thanks! that's really enlightening, so is it a good horn to get if your in the market for a new committee?, i'm guessing the build quality is up to scratch? i don't know B.A C, seen some clips of there factory on facebook.
is it built up from a pre bought block or do they build the blocks for this like adams does for the A9?, lead pipes and bells made in house?.
Sorry for the grilling

its a lot of £ and i cant try one, so would be going on faith.
And thanks for your time in answering this for me i really appreciate it.

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440

DJtpt31 · Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:23 pm Post subject:

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440

Bill Ortiz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904

I'm wondering if it has the same tapered tuning slide like the Committees had.
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OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440

Bill Ortiz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904

You may be right Ron. I know that when Wallace Roney had Kanstul design his horn, that was a feature he was interested in. I'm playing the Schilke Handcraft and I think it does, but not sure. Just like how it plays :) I'd be curious to try one of these new horns...
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'56 Martin Committee Deluxe #2 trumpet
14B Schilke mouthpiece
Couesnon Paris flugelhorn
Bob Reeves Sleeves and PVA

Goby · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 650

Goby · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 650

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440

Goby · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 650

The laser scan and “copying” is merely the first step in building a faithful reproduction. They did change a few things in the leadpipe to improve intonation. Ultimately, Ambrose stuck with his vintage Committees, but for someone looking for a new horn, the A9 is the closest thing to the “real deal” without buying an old horn.

DJtpt31 · Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:05 pm Post subject:

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440

Ajay · Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:38 am Post subject:

Thanks all for your info, so it’s not the kanstul design Martin first went for, the one Wallace Rooney endorsed (god bless him).
I found out about it because for my sins I play on a g2 mouthpiece I’d got from kanstul and jack told me about the trumpet on the phone.
I guess the cost isn’t the parts but the knowledge of putting it together I guess.
carolbrass vavles are great, really nice company.
I know this sounds like I’m a backward thinking troglodyte, but I just want a new perfect copy warts and all, just for me, I’d be mad to use a large bore Martin on a 4 hour function set mainly playing 70 disco, my bottom would fall out’

Does the block have the right angle for the second slide, it’s quite raked on a Martin, I guess that would affect the sound, and if it doesn’t have the step bore it would be quite different. I guess??