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Identifying Kanstul-Made Besson 609



 
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bessonneophite609
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Joined: 13 Jun 2021
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Location: Santa Clarita, CA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:50 am    Post subject: Identifying Kanstul-Made Besson 609 Reply with quote

Hello and thanks for the add.

When my son started playing trumpet a few years back, a horn-playing friend suggested I buy him a Besson 609, so I did. Then, I bought another for him as a backup. It was beat up, so I spent some time straightening it and smoothing the bell. I enjoyed the restoration, and want to learn more about restoring trumpets.

Both of these horns have "Besson" and "609" engraved on the bell. I am now looking at another horn that claims to be a Besson 609, but it only has "Besson" engraved on the bell. There is a symbol engraved above "Besson," but I cannot tell if it is a "B" for "Besson" or a "K" for "Kanstul." See image.

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10225451743107435&set=a.1098781996700

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Also, if anyone could suggest other questions I can ask to determine the origins of this horn, I would be thankful.

Cheers!
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yourbrass
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Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scroll to the end of this thread for your answers:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49249&highlight=kanstul+besson
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ghelbig
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Joined: 27 May 2011
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Location: Reno, NV

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: Identifying Kanstul-Made Besson 609 Reply with quote

The photo is too blurry to make out the logo - but the "USA" is missing - that should be right under the SS in Besson.

A Kanstul-made horn should have the serial number on the underside of the bell - near the valve block. The 1st 3 numbers are the model, the next group is the serial number.

Two other things to check: The valve caps (top & bottom) should match the horns you have; the style on non-Kanstul horns is different. And check the alignment of the 3rd valve guide. Pistons 1 & 2 the valve guide goes from left to right while the guide for the 3rd piston will angle up from right to left. As far as I know, this orientation of the 3rd valve guide is unique to Kanstul horns.

Another thing to check is the holder for the 3rd finger ring. On Kanstul horns the outside of it is round, on others it is square.

It is very common for someone to claim that a Besson 600 is Kanstul-made 609 when it is not - Zig's version is a lot better.

Hope that helps,
Gary.
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huntman10
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Joined: 30 Aug 2017
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Location: Texas South Plains

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "sqiggle" on the bell flair is an intertwined very cursive F and B which has long been used on French Besson instruments (but I don't know if it really stands for French Besson), regardless of where they were made.
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
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bessonneophite609
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Joined: 13 Jun 2021
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Location: Santa Clarita, CA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Identifying Kanstul-Made Besson 609 Reply with quote

ghelbig wrote:
The photo is too blurry to make out the logo - but the "USA" is missing - that should be right under the SS in Besson.


I noticed that as well. I strongly suspect this is not a Kanstul-made 609, if it is a 609 at all (I saw that Besson contracted with another builder toward the end of the 609s product lifespan).

Thanks to everyone for the answers! I am going to pass on this one and keep looking for other options.
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