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Water Key?


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trickg
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
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Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
I thought about having the the Amado changed, but I found a horn just as good with standard keys.
I made money on the horn when I sold it.
R. Tomasek

I like that! That's a better option than spending the money to convert the water keys, that's for sure!
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manuel de los Campos wrote:
I think you can divide trumpetplayers in 3 groups:
1) Amado lovers
2) Trumpetplayers that do not care
3) Amado haters


Ironically, most of my Getzens don't have them (too early).

I like what works. For a euphonium player, pulling valve slides to dump them can be a major problem while playing - and they are packed in there in a way that levers really dont fit - but Amados on 2nd and 3rd work perfect. On a Bb trumpet tuning slide on the other hand - I am fine either way, perhaps prefer lever a little for ease of operation. On a trombone slide, an Amado would not be desirable.
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Riojazz
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Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saturn had a quick mention. I put one on my flugel and it was a great improvement over the Amado. You just have to clean it of gunk once in awhile, but it is far more effective at emptying spit than an Amado. It also doesn't send parts flying across the room when cleaning.

I put two Pollard keys on my trumpet, and I love those the most. They work like an Amado, have a design that will never stick, and are easy to open and clean.

And yes, no matter how much effort I put into the two Amado keys on my Domenick-made Calicchio, they stuck. I carried a paper clip with me to every performance.
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Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D.
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Houston, TX.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got a horn with a Saturn, and so far, it seems like an improvement over Amado. It seems as if it empties quicker and more completely than Amados I’ve had, and it’s very airtight. Only thing I don’t like is that it seems to not fit great in Torpedo cases, the case seems to put pressure on it. Probably just my OCD.😉

I don’t know if there’s any dependability improvement; Amados kept clean and oiled don’t stick, in my experience.

Brad
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royjohn
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Joined: 12 Jan 2005
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Location: Knoxville, Tennessee

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read thru this entire thread and did not see any mention of how to care for an Amado or Amado style water key. You should buy some rotor oil, or at least use your normal valve oil. The rotor oil comes with a needle that makes it easier to apply. You put a drop or two in the hole where the water exits and another drop or two into the hole on the side of the water key...that is where the spring is. Good luck on getting the oil in the right place if you don't have one of those needle applicator thingeys. If you keep the trumpet cleaned and the key oiled, you will probably have a lot less trouble with it. If it does still screw up, you can remove the split washer (the British call it a circlip) with the right type of needle nose pliers and disassemble the water key and clean it out. Be careful, because when you remove the split washer, the spring may pop the contents out, so find a way to restrain it.

The leaking people are complaining about evidently is caused by debris getting into the taper of the plunger. Oil or disassembly should get rid of this. Ditto the piston seizing during a performance.

I don't have a great preference for Amado or Saturn over standard keys, but it is true that there is less turbulence with either of those...and there isn't any worry over a water key screw being too tight or loose and affecting the blow of the horn, which they do.
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Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The portion of an Amado type valve that needs lube and clean is the outside of the piston and the inside of the casing (those are the surfaces that produce the seal).
With the water opening UP and the valve closed, I put a drop of lightweight valve oil on the opening and then open/close the valve several times to spread the oil around.
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Riojazz
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the Amado keys, I follow the process written just above by Royjohn. I use Hetman key oil which has the needle dropper. And when disassembling an Amado, I work within a large clear plastic bag.

There is a special tool made to spread the little C clip, and I bought one, but I've never gotten it to work as well as a little flat head jeweler's screwdriver to pry it out. Several parts will then shoot out, but that's why I work in the plastic bag.
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Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D.
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