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Grits Burgh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 805 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Getzen wrote: | Thank you very much for the order. What are you getting and where did you order it?
Believe me, the last thing you want me to do is go out and work on your cornet. My factory days are long behind me. Despite how much I miss it, at this point, I would just get in the way of the real craftsmen/women out there. |
I ordered a 3810 C Cornet from Brook Mays in Texas. I can't wait to play it at church. The order got fouled up, but I think that they finally got it to you, or at least they should get it to you shortly. As soon as I can slip it by my beloved spouse, I plan to get an 800DLX Eterna to go with it. Your cornets make me happy.
Warm regards,
Grits _________________ Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy. |
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Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:07 am Post subject: |
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How are nickel plated superior to stainless?stainless is a much more hard material and less likely to suffer scratches and marks. Do they in fact wear the casings unduly? I have always preferred stainless to any other valves and feel they do show less wear over time. It would seem to me a little harder to work. Please educate me with this.
Thanks,
Rod |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3303 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Rod Haney wrote: | How are nickel plated superior to stainless?stainless is a much more hard material and less likely to suffer scratches and marks. ... |
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My understanding (from google search about ROCKWELL hardness of nickel plate and stainless steel) is that nickel plating is significantly harder than stainless steel.
The 'nickel-silver' brass alloy (of nickel and copper) is softer than stainless, but that is different than nickel plating. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Divitt Trumpets Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2015 Posts: 520 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:54 am Post subject: |
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JayKosta wrote: | Rod Haney wrote: | How are nickel plated superior to stainless?stainless is a much more hard material and less likely to suffer scratches and marks. ... |
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My understanding (from google search about ROCKWELL hardness of nickel plate and stainless steel) is that nickel plating is significantly harder than stainless steel.
The 'nickel-silver' brass alloy (of nickel and copper) is softer than stainless, but that is different than nickel plating. |
Nickel plating also has high lubricity, which is why they feel so dang smooth. _________________ www.divitt-trumpets.com
www.facebook.com/divitt.trumpets
www.instagram.com/divitttrumpets |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3635 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Nickel-plated valves, properly fitted, are it. There's a reason most manufacturers won't do that - far too labor intensive. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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BraeGrimes Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2011 Posts: 269 Location: Australia
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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yourbrass wrote: | Nickel-plated valves, properly fitted, are it. There's a reason most manufacturers won't do that - far too labor intensive. |
I can honestly say, it's not more labour intensive to fit nickel plated valves. It's cheaper to nickel-plate valves too (and replate them, which is kind of the beauty of it). I know Getzen has an article explaining the differences (https://getzen.com/2006/03/04/nickel-vs-monel-the-battle-rages-on/) but a lot of it is spin, including the claim "The hard, smooth surface created by the nickel plating protects the piston... The soft areas caused by brazing [on monel pistons] quickly wear creating microscopic pits. These pits act as tiny little hooks grabbing on to acid and dirt causing corrosion to spread quickly over the piston. In the end, you’re left with a piston surface that’s more like sandpaper than a bearing." - no evidence to support this claim, very dubious. Also, Trumpet X in their tests... could be a Bach, Yamaha, Jupiter, Eastman, Shires, Schagerl...
Realistically, I have nothing against nickel-plated valves and still think that a well made valve will work great no matter what it's made of or plated with (within reason). For me, Monel holds oil better and I'm lazy (most are). That's the only reason I prefer it. |
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Getzen Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 1921
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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BraeGrimes wrote: | yourbrass wrote: | Nickel-plated valves, properly fitted, are it. There's a reason most manufacturers won't do that - far too labor intensive. |
I can honestly say, it's not more labour intensive to fit nickel plated valves. It's cheaper to nickel-plate valves too (and replate them, which is kind of the beauty of it). I know Getzen has an article explaining the differences (https://getzen.com/2006/03/04/nickel-vs-monel-the-battle-rages-on/) but a lot of it is spin, including the claim "The hard, smooth surface created by the nickel plating protects the piston... The soft areas caused by brazing [on monel pistons] quickly wear creating microscopic pits. These pits act as tiny little hooks grabbing on to acid and dirt causing corrosion to spread quickly over the piston. In the end, you’re left with a piston surface that’s more like sandpaper than a bearing." - no evidence to support this claim, very dubious. Also, Trumpet X in their tests... could be a Bach, Yamaha, Jupiter, Eastman, Shires, Schagerl...
Realistically, I have nothing against nickel-plated valves and still think that a well made valve will work great no matter what it's made of or plated with (within reason). For me, Monel holds oil better and I'm lazy (most are). That's the only reason I prefer it. |
First off, plating anything is more expensive than not plating it. Especially here the the States. Extremely strict and costly environmental regulations, labor involved, maintaining tanks, etc... Why do you think so many people use plating shops like Anderson rather than doing it in house?
Second, we have made both monel and nickel plated, nickel silver pistons. Fitting is basically the same, but overall I can tell you which is more expensive.
Third, there is proof of hardness post brazing. The article includes hardness testing results. And I think the test results and photos are proof enough of which surface is more corrosion resistant.
As for the brand of Trumpet X, that was intentionally left out. This was a Getzen vs monel test. Not Getzen vs Bach or Yamaha or Shires etc...
I’ll stand by the test results. Note, I’ve never seen another manufacturer perform a similar test that show otherwise. At least not one made public. _________________ Brett Getzen
President
Getzen Company
Follow Getzen on:
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/getzencompany/
Twitter https://twitter.com/GetzenCompany
If you have a question please feel free to email me at brett@getzen.com. |
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