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What Else Do We Need?



 
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:15 am    Post subject: What Else Do We Need? Reply with quote

I'm back for more advice from band leaders.

We booked a gig with a local park district to play a 2-hour Dixieland concert at a new outdoor venue. The sound system was going to be provided. Now we learn it may not arrive in time and we've been asked to bring backup.

We'll have bass, guitar, drums, trumpet, clarinet, trombone plus vocalist.

Audio-wise, the bass and guitar players each have amps/speakers.

I have a Kustom PA 50 amp/speaker with a Shure mic and boom.

What else do we need to borrow or buy?
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: What Else Do We Need? Reply with quote

jhatpro wrote:
I'm back for more advice from band leaders.

We booked a gig with a local park district to play a 2-hour Dixieland concert at a new outdoor venue. The sound system was going to be provided. Now we learn it may not arrive in time and we've been asked to bring backup.

We'll have bass, guitar, drums, trumpet, clarinet, trombone plus vocalist.

Audio-wise, the bass and guitar players each have amps/speakers.

I have a Kustom PA 50 amp/speaker with a Shure mic and boom.

What else do we need to borrow or buy?

I'm sure the specifics of what gear you need depends on the specifics of the venue - how wide and deep an area you need to be heard in.

Do you definitely *need* amplification for everyone? I imagine your vocalist will need to be amped but for example here's a traditional band playing outdoors with no amplification. They're on a street so there are surfaces for the sound to reflect off of - the buildings, the street itself.


Link


For the horns you need dynamic mics that are up to it - dynamic mics aren't as sensitive as condenser "studio" mics and pick up sound in a relatively narrow pattern. A couple of old war horses are Shure SM-58 or SM-57. In general you want more horsepower than you need, better to have the gear running at 30% capacity than 90% capacity and if you get the gear you'll have it for future use in different venues.

Along with the gear one thing you should consider important is someone running sound who has good hearing and common sense so your sound is balanced, not distorted, loud enough but not blowing anyone's ears out. I'm convinced that the person on the sound board at many venues is profoundly deaf - generally it's too #^@! loud and they have the high frequencies exaggerated - clarinet for example has some spikey frequencies and you don't want their high/loud notes to be blowing people's ears out because the guy on sound has no high frequency hearing.
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good advice, thanks!
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"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
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1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
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1954 Conn 80A cornet
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mm55
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:42 am    Post subject: Re: What Else Do We Need? Reply with quote

Robert P wrote:
dynamic mics aren't as sensitive as condenser "studio" mics and pick up sound in a relatively narrow pattern.


Actually, the pickup pattern (describing how sound from different directions is picked up) has nothing to do with whether it's a dynamic or condenser mic.

I agree that SM57 and SM58 microphones are likely to be a good choice, and pretty budget-friendly as well. Dynamic microphones with cardioid pickup patterns (which includes the SM57 and SM58) are probably your best bet for this application.

I also heartily agree that someone with a good ear for the music should be there to operate the sound system, although for this kind of gig, they may not need to do much if any further knob-twiddling after the first couple of tunes.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: What Else Do We Need? Reply with quote

mm55 wrote:
Robert P wrote:
dynamic mics aren't as sensitive as condenser "studio" mics and pick up sound in a relatively narrow pattern.


Actually, the pickup pattern (describing how sound from different directions is picked up) has nothing to do with whether it's a dynamic or condenser mic.

While the electronics and construction of dynamics and condensers are different and pickup patterns vary, as a general rule dynamic mics used on stage have a narrower field, don't have the high frequency presence and are less sensitive to avoid picking up other instruments, wind noise, feedback control. You're not going to pick up the high frequency details of banjo or fiddle strings or the crisp, airy highs of a vocalist but that's not crucial in typical live venues. And of course dynamics aren't as likely to break if they experience rough handling, the SM-58/57 are famous for being rugged.

I have both large diaphragm and pencil condenser mics, the pencil mics are more directed but in practical use they're going to pick up over a wider field than say an SM-58 because of the greater sensitivity.

Condensers *can* be and are used in live venues but the environment and setup has to be configured to avoid the potential problems. For a bunch of guys setting up a Dixieland band in a park, dynamics are the way to go.
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ayryq
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Joined: 16 Feb 2019
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Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure anyone answered your question; I'll have a go at a bare minimum, assuming you need everyone amplified, and can live without monitoring, and can set the levels yourselves ahead of time with an on-stage mixer.

You need either a powered mixer with a couple passive speakers or
an unpowered mixer with a couple powered speakers.

Cords and mics for everyone (SM57/58 as mentioned), and direct boxes for the two instruments already using amps. For drums my church has been using 2 mics, bass drum dynamic and overhead condenser (which adds the complication of needing phantom power). If you can get away with acoustic for the drums it'll simplify things.

There's some good sound-system-in-a-box type things that would cover the first requirement, like the Fender Passport (https://www.sweetwater.com/c442--Portable_PA_Systems)

If I were you I'd be calling smaller local churches. A lot of places have been running outdoor services during the pandemic and had to put together some sort of easy-to-set-up sound system for guitars and singers. The really big places probably have expensive digital mixers that they'd be less likely to lend out (though they may have an old portable system in a closet somewhere).
A second place to try would be school districts that may be willing to help you out since its for the park district. Some marching bands run small PA systems for the pit percussion, or have portable systems for graduation, etc.
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, all!

Our 7-piece trad band plays a variety of indoor and outdoor venues with a mix of sound environments.

We’ve assembled a collection of audio gear including some active and passive speakers, stands, mics, mixers and enough cables and cords to start a hardware store.

We’re trying to determine the best combination of gear that will serve our needs without requiring a U haul, two roadies and a sound guy.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle
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