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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:06 am    Post subject: Music glasses Reply with quote

Hi

I wonder if anyone can help me with this. I've always been long sighted, so have worn glasses for music for years, but my near vision suddenly declined two years ago at age 45, and has got a fair amount worse since, also affecting my intermediate vision.

I've worn progressives for 2 years, first with a +1.00 add, then +1.50 add, then +1.75 add. I've got a very long corridor design, and they generally work well for playing the trumpet and cornet, since I tend to play with my head back and bell up a bit, but they are not so good for playing the flute.

I have a pair of single vision music glasses with a +0.75 add (compared to my +1.75 reading add). These generally work very well and give me good vision at around 80cm - 1 metre. The problem starts when the music becomes small and there are multiple parts of a stave, generally when brass band cornet playing. I am limited in how close I can have the stand, as a point is reached when I really need more add to easily read the middle line of three, or see tiny cues, grace notes and accidentals, and I can see better with my progressives, owing to the progressive add progressing right down to my full near add.

I also am unable to see well enough with my single vision music glasses, to really mark anything on my part, even with my arms at full stretch.

I'm not sure whether I am particularly limited in the range I can see with each add. I also have a pair of single vision laptop glasses with a +1.25 add. These work from a little over arms length away, but don't extend far enough for music.

A +1.00 add may work for music, but I think that I would then be limited in how far away I can have my stand, and the conductor is already annoyingly blurred with a +0.75 add.

For those of you old enough to have a reading add lol, how much lower is your music add? My understanding is that an intermediate add should be half a reading add. Mine is +1.75. Half would be +0.875. I think that it is convention to round down, so +0.75 is right, but at +1.00 less than my reading add, maybe I should expect to not be able to see very well when I lean in to mark my part or see something very small.

I'm not sure whether I have particularly awful near vision (I can't read anything other than very large print without glasses), or whether other people generally go with a higher add for music and move their stands in closer than the distance I've always preferred. I like the stand back, so that the trumpet bell does not obscure the stand.

Anyway, any thoughts? What do you find works well for you?

All the best

Lou
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm 71, and until I was 45, i could focus from the tip of my nose to remote celestial bodies. I worked in an office job which required reading 100's of pages of Federal Register rules and changes daily, when I was not working in power plants. Suddenly, at 45, I needed low power readers to help me focus on papers and the just beginning computer publications.

I didn't take it too seriously until that summer at Boy Scout camp when I was teaching fly tying and realized my arms were suddenly 2 feet short! When I got back to town, I got the bad news. Not only did I need actual GLASSES, but BIFOCALS. Suddenly, when I saw my reflection in a car or store window, MY DAD was looking back!

Anyway, I experimented with different ways to deal with the aging thing, but after having drawers of glasses (think of Redd Foxx on " Sanford and Son", I have gradually creeped up to +3.0 readers. I have readers of various descriptions and powers i every horn case, mute bag, and music sack! Santa glasses for Christmas concerts, sunglass readers for outside concerts in the sun, and red white and blue frames for the big patriotic July 4th bashes.

This summer, though, I crossed over to using a tablet, about a 9 inch iPad. I got on eBay and got a sturdy pad stand, so I can move the pad up close, and it doesn't muffle my sound (all my summer work was either on a Shep crook Eb cornet or P5-4, so they are really close.) My far vision is not perfectly clear, but plenty good, and while I am playing, I watch the conductor peripherally without issue.

The tablet replaces about 4 pounds of music, and is smaller to carry. Plus I no longer have to carry my little stand light. And I have a little mute ring on it so i dont have to bend my big gut over my belt on these fast mute changes, plus i have a magnetic pen on the rack that let's my highlight key changes and phrases right on the music.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi huntman10

Thank you very much for your very detailed reply, which is really appreciated.

Probably my fault, but I'm not understanding how having a 9" iPad really close is helping. Would you please mind clarifying. Many thanks.

All the best

Lou

The point I was trying to make, possibly quite badly, was that the reading addition I need to see a music stand at 80-100cm, doesn't allow me to move the stand in far enough to comfortably read three cornet parts on the same stave with tiny print, or enable me to mark annotations on music, when resting it on my knee, presumably because my music add is +0.75, compared to my laptop add of +1.25 and near add of +1.75.

I cannot see a far conductor particularly clearly with a +0.75 add as it is, and any higher not only makes the conductor more blurred, but limits how far away I can have a music stand.

Ignoring seeing the conductor, ideally I want to be able to see from close enough to annotate music on my knee, lean in to see something tiny on the music (say a 30cm distance) out to around 1 metre, where I would probably have my stand when playing larger print parts on trumpet, and I cannot get this range of vision with one single vision pair of glasses.

I'm not sure whether everyone else experiences the same issues, and also finds it hard to lean in to look at something small, make annotations, with single vision music glasses set for their music stand distance, or whether I have a particularly short range of focus with each add.

If your reading add is +1.75 and your music add is +0.75 or even +1.00, it stands to reason that you have +1.00 or +0.75 less add than you ideally need when leaning in to annotate a part, but most people seem to manage fine, whereas I can barely see the music or what I'm trying to write. Maybe it is just my shorter arms. I don't know. It is just frustrating that my music glasses are so limiting in range. I can't see far with them, can't see close with them, just a small range of music stand distances. I'll probably stick with my progressives, as I can see at all distances with them, but even with decent lenses, the intermediate zone is not overly wide, and will get narrower in time as my reading add increases, hopefully not in the too near future.

All the best

Lou
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remembering that I've have a big pile of over the counter readers of different strengths (used mainly in the bathroom), I thought that I'd do some experimenting.

As a word of warning, I'm being a bit detailed here, so please feel free to ignore me, if I'm boring you lol.

My distance prescription is small, +0.75 with a small amount of astigmatism. Converting my distance prescription to a sphere equivalent prescription, by adding 1/2 my cylinder (-0.50 right/-0.25 left) to my sphere, it comes out at right eye +0.50, left eye +0.625. Going with +0.50 for distance for each eye, my prescriptions come out as:

+1.25 music (i.e. +0.50 distance, +0.75 add)
+1.75 lap top
+2.25 reading

I happen to have over the counter readers in these strengths, and a +1.00 and +1.50 pair.

I have a preference for quite a reasonable music stand distance (prevents trumpet bell from being in front of the music, the sound going into the stand etc.), probably around 36 inches.

+1.25 (which equates to my prescription music glasses (+1.50 with -0.50/-0.25 cylinder)) does give me best vision for my preferred music stand distance.

+1.50 works but is a bit strong. +1.00 is a bit weak.

In the good light of my bedroom, I can lean close enough into the stand to annotate a part with +1.25 readers (and my prescription music glasses), but the focus is not brilliant. In the band room, I struggle more, hence putting up with the drawbacks of using progressives for music.

I've been reading all threads on this subject, and on one, a poster mentioned having music glasses that work from 12" to 36". This is ideally what I'd like, but I can't focus down to 12" with glasses that give me good vision at 36", or out to 36" with glasses that allow me to see down to 12" clearly. I'm not sure whether this is typical for someone with a +1.75 reading add, only that I personally have three different single vision pairs to cover this distance range, +1.75 add for reading, +1.25 add for my laptop and +0.75 add for my music. I'm not sure whether this is normal. My optician didn't seem to think that it was strange when she prescribed them. Maybe I'm fussy lol

Anyway, I'm be interested in anyone's thoughts, if I haven't bored you all to death lol.

Many thanks

Lou
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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
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Bach Strad 184ML
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- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou,

The problem I hit at 45 and you have hit is "presbyopia", the simple version is that at "middle age" (and I am now, I reluctantly must admit, more "elderly") your eyeball becomes less flexible. Your range of adjustment (by the muscles flattening or stretching the eyeball) becomes more difficult. So your depth of focus for a pair of glasses is more narrow. As you have clearly explained, your Rx for the readers give you a narrow field of view. I use my readers to see the music and look over the top at the conductor. By getting my tablet up close, I am seeing the music at the same range that I make notations on the PDF file using the tablet writing tool.

You might like to try what I ordered from my Optometrist. I had a special set of "music specs trifocals" made up about three years ago. Most trifocals put the main long range in the middle of the lens, the close up at the bottom, and the medium range at the top. I had them stack the long range at the top, medium in the middle (I requested 22 inches (about 55 com) for stand range and about 10 inches (25 cm) for the lower lenses. But my lens technician really would not go for the mid range and changed it to about 16 inches, and changed the spec to less than I had requested. I even took my Schilke X3 and a music stand and Arban page to test it. I did use them for a while in band.

If you want bifocals (not the progressives, which I feel seem to distort in the transitioin area), I originally had a special pair made up when I was in my late 40's to read blueprints and other such materials. I had the lower "close focus" area raised up about the middle of the lens, and used those glasses in our concert band back in Amarillo. Bifocals are MUCH less expensive that special order trifocals.

Anyway, I like the readers better myself, but the trifocals have become my favorite computer glasses. I could have gone back to get them fixed, but I like them so much for computer, and do quite well with the readers in band.

John Hudspeth
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
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scottfsmith
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might try just swapping glasses when you need to mark the music. Or, just temporarily put some +1 or so over the counter glasses on top of your music glasses while doing the marking.

When I am at home playing I often just put some +1.0 over the counter glasses on top of my progressive prescription glasses when reading music. It works surprisingly well if looking a bit dorky. If you have a bunch of over the counter glasses you can play around with different combinations and you can get a single pair made matching the two-pair if you find a good combo.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huntman10 wrote:
Lou,

The problem I hit at 45 and you have hit is "presbyopia", the simple version is that at "middle age" (and I am now, I reluctantly must admit, more "elderly") your eyeball becomes less flexible. Your range of adjustment (by the muscles flattening or stretching the eyeball) becomes more difficult.

My understanding is that the lens becomes less flexible and compressible, not the eyeball. There are now replacement lenses that can be used as replacements for the existing lenses when performing cataract surgery that help with presbyopia.

I personally use mono vision contact lenses. Left eye is distance, right is reading. It took about a week of wearing them for my brain to adapt.

In Lou’s scenario, needing to have close up for annotating, a pair of off the shelf reading half glasses could provide annotation clarity and looking over the reading glasses would allow reading the chart and seeing the director.

I have prescription glasses that adjusts the reading eye to music stand distance, computer glasses that adapt both eyes for computer screen distance and driving glasses that make both eyes long distance.

But I typically just use the no glasses mono vision option while performing.
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huntman10
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty,

You are correct, it is the lens, not the eyeball that flexes, when the circular muscles tense.

First misteak this year!!
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huntman10 wrote:
LittleRusty,

You are correct, it is the lens, not the eyeball that flexes, when the circular muscles tense.

First misteak this year!!

I have followed this with interest since presbyopia struck me in my early 50’s.

I now have the beginnings of cataracts and knew that presbyopia replacement lenses were on the horizon, so I have been following that too.

One interesting thing I ran across years ago was that a infant was able to grow a new lenses to replace the opaque ones she was born with using lens stem cells. I had hope for that.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much, everyone. I have a very busy day today, as my son is moving out, followed by my daughter's flute lesson, then an orchestra rehearsal, so will reply tomorrow.

Just as one thing to add, I tried multifocal contact lenses, and couldn't get good vision. What allowed me to read and see a music stand, gave me unacceptable distance vision in my left eye. Sorting out my left eye distance vision, gave me the equivalent of trying to read music with my distance vision glasses, and close reading with my music glasses. I was advised not to try mono vision, as I can't stand one eye being even slightly blurred (and couldn't even tolerate this even to a minor degree with multi-focal contact lenses, and to be honest, I just don't get on with contact lenses full stop. Dry eyes, co-ordination issues with my hands that make putting them in and taking them out a nightmare, and I wear base in prism in my glasses (which I can do without, but would prefer not to) owing to convergence issues caused by weak eye muscles, which has the same cause as the co-ordination issues with my hands. It is a miracle I can play at all, but actually despite me generally not being very good with my hands, I have no issue with fingering on instruments, even the flute on which I'm fairly dexterous.

I'll reply properly tomorrow.

Thanks very much again

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a spare 15 minutes or so, will start replying lol.
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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
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- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
I have a spare 15 minutes or so, will start replying lol.


Louise!
Bit older than you (born prior to the middle of last century)I do have the same problems (I think).
Not wanting to get lost in numbers all I can contribute with is this:
Having got my first bifocals I happily strolled away to the brassband rehearsal only to find that whenever I focused at the sheet in front of me I just couldn´t read it. If I did not focus, I could see it.....
So I realized that the need for another type of spectacles was at hand, subito!
At the "sight repair man´s" we discussed the distance to the sheet of music, tested back and forth finally arriving at an average setting. Whereafter I have been able to read music OK. The "strenght2 of the spectacles has been adjusted twice since. But now and then our director pulls out i.e. a march printed in the UK about the time of the first great war with miniscule signs,which causes me big problems - is that an Aflat or a Bflat or....(might also be very old french marches)I will have to lean forward thereby blurring the damn thing - in such cases I will have to ask my so much younger front row buddy (who by the way also translates what the director just said, me not hearing because of 1)ear protection 2)bad hearing).
Quite unsure if this helps but if not just announcing your´e not alone!
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

huntman10 wrote:
Lou,

The problem I hit at 45 and you have hit is "presbyopia",

Hi John

Yes, and it happened to me at 45 also.


the simple version is that at "middle age" (and I am now, I reluctantly must admit, more "elderly") your eyeball becomes less flexible. Your range of adjustment (by the muscles flattening or stretching the eyeball) becomes more difficult. So your depth of focus for a pair of glasses is more narrow. As you have clearly explained, your Rx for the readers give you a narrow field of view.

Thanks very much. I think in my case, wearing progressives full-time has not helped. Owing to being long-sighted as a child and it not being picked up (my convergence insufficiency issue was also not picked up, owing to having no eye tests as a child), I developed latent hyperopia, which was picked up as an adult. In my case, it had two causes, having focused over hyperopia since childhood, and also the relationship between convergence and accommodation. I was over accommodating to aid my convergence. My eyes fought glasses for years, and finally have been able to accept my full distance prescription (which is only +0.75 anyway, although it would have probably been higher before I hit my teens), thanks to the addition of base in prism, to prevent me over accommodating to converge, and progressives to also help prevent me from over accommodating at near. This has worked in so far as stopping me from over accommodating for distance, but at the expense of deconditioning my ciliary muscles which are responsible for having to squeeze my hardened crystalline lenses (previous biology student lol), since for the last two and a half years, I've effectively worn reading/intermediate glasses for every remotely near/intermediate task.

I use my readers to see the music and look over the top at the conductor. By getting my tablet up close, I am seeing the music at the same range that I make notations on the PDF file using the tablet writing tool.

Oh I understand now. Thanks very much for the clarification. Since my optician has strongly advised now that my distance vision is stable, that I do not go without distance glasses, even though my distance prescription is small, I'm trying not to look over the top of music/reading glasses, and although this option clearly works well for you, I think that it would just make the conductor impossibly blurred for me.

You might like to try what I ordered from my Optometrist. I had a special set of "music specs trifocals" made up about three years ago. Most trifocals put the main long range in the middle of the lens, the close up at the bottom, and the medium range at the top.

Interesting, thanks. I always thought that the intermediate was in the small segment just above the reading bifocal. Maybe there are different types of trifocals. What you describe sounds like double D bifocals, with an intermediate bifocal at the top and near bifocal at the bottom, but I could easily be confused again.

I had them stack the long range at the top, medium in the middle (I requested 22 inches (about 55 com) for stand range and about 10 inches (25 cm) for the lower lenses.

Again, interesting. I'd want more than this for stand range, probably around 80cm, but a concept that could work for me.

But my lens technician really would not go for the mid range and changed it to about 16 inches, and changed the spec to less than I had requested. I even took my Schilke X3 and a music stand and Arban page to test it. I did use them for a while in band.

Really, I wonder why the lens technician would do this, especially when you made the effort to take your trumpet, music stand and arban to your appointment, to specifically measure the music distance.

If you want bifocals (not the progressives, which I feel seem to distort in the transitioin area),

I don't find any issues with distortion in the transition area, having a very long corridor and very gradual progression, but the intermediate area is fairly narrow and I have to lift up my head to enter it, which I don't mind for trumpet playing, but don't like for flute playing, owing to posture differences between each.

I originally had a special pair made up when I was in my late 40's to read blueprints and other such materials. I had the lower "close focus" area raised up about the middle of the lens, and used those glasses in our concert band back in Amarillo. Bifocals are MUCH less expensive that special order trifocals.

Interesting, thanks, but just to add the issue, one of the reasons I wear long corridor progressives (other than to aid in getting the top and bottom of music in focus at the same time), is so that I can lift my head and bell out of the stand, without entering the near zone too quickly. I'm awkward I reckon, wanting to get into the intermediate zone without having to lift my head as much, but wanting the near zone so low down, that I don't end up entering it, when my stand is too far away for full near correction. I therefore don't think that a raised close focus area would work for me. In a nutshell, I just think I prefer my music stand too far away for this option to work.

Anyway, I like the readers better myself, but the trifocals have become my favorite computer glasses. I could have gone back to get them fixed, but I like them so much for computer,

I'm very pleased to hear that they work well for the computer. I'm happy with single vision glasses for my laptop, since my desk is against a wall, and I have no distance vision requirements. Since my single vision computer glasses are a +1.25 add compared to my +1.75 full reading add, I can read well enough with them, to be able to look between paperwork on my desk and laptop.

and do quite well with the readers in band.

I'm also very pleased to hear this. If I didn't have a preference for around a 80-100cm music distance for trumpet playing, but also need to move my stand in to around 60cm for small brass band cornet parts with multiple staves on one line, I think that I would do quite well also, and could always swap to reading glasses for annotating parts. The problem is that I require something in between for small brass band cornet parts, and can't be switching between three pairs of glasses, and still not be able to clearly see a conductor, as that would require a fourth (distance) pair.

Thanks very much again, for all your advice and assistance. I've run out of time and have not proof read this, so hopefully I come across ok, make sense and have not made too many errors.

All the best

Lou


John Hudspeth

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottfsmith wrote:
You might try just swapping glasses when you need to mark the music. Or, just temporarily put some +1 or so over the counter glasses on top of your music glasses while doing the marking.

When I am at home playing I often just put some +1.0 over the counter glasses on top of my progressive prescription glasses when reading music. It works surprisingly well if looking a bit dorky. If you have a bunch of over the counter glasses you can play around with different combinations and you can get a single pair made matching the two-pair if you find a good combo.


Hi Scottfsmith

Thank you very much. If it wasn’t for the issue which Seymor mentions, of being unable to lean in to look at something on a small piece of music whilst playing, yours would be an excellent idea.

Regarding wearing readers over your progressives at home, I have a pair of clip on flip up +2.00 readers, which I clip on my progressives, for reading music from a lyre. For those who haven’t tried reading from a lyre with progressives, the problem is that the lyre is attached to the cornet, whose mouthpiece is obviously your mouth lol, and therefore you can never look through the near zone. These look dorky too, but easily flip up to give distance vision.

Thanks v much again

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
huntman10 wrote:
Lou,

The problem I hit at 45 and you have hit is "presbyopia", the simple version is that at "middle age" (and I am now, I reluctantly must admit, more "elderly") your eyeball becomes less flexible. Your range of adjustment (by the muscles flattening or stretching the eyeball) becomes more difficult.

My understanding is that the lens becomes less flexible and compressible, not the eyeball.

Hi Little Rusty

Thanks very much. I believe that it is the combination of the hardening of the crystalline lens, and the reduction in efficiency of the ciliary muscles used to squeeze it, which sadly become deconditioned when reading glasses take over their work.


There are now replacement lenses that can be used as replacements for the existing lenses when performing cataract surgery that help with presbyopia.

Multifocal IOLs right? I have a friend who had this done, but regrets it, as he is not getting good vision xx

I personally use mono vision contact lenses. Left eye is distance, right is reading. It took about a week of wearing them for my brain to adapt.

Sadly, I don't think that this is for me, as even with glasses, I can tell if one eye is slightly blurred, and I couldn't get on with multifocal contact lenses, owing to the eye chosen to be more dominant for distance, seeming blurred to me. I think one issue, is that I don't have a dominant eye.

In Lou’s scenario, needing to have close up for annotating, a pair of off the shelf reading half glasses could provide annotation clarity and looking over the reading glasses would allow reading the chart and seeing the director.

I have prescription glasses that adjusts the reading eye to music stand distance, computer glasses that adapt both eyes for computer screen distance and driving glasses that make both eyes long distance.

I can definitely see how this can work well for people.

But I typically just use the no glasses mono vision option while performing.

I'm very glad that this works well for you.

Take care

Lou

_________________
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Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
huntman10 wrote:
LittleRusty,

You are correct, it is the lens, not the eyeball that flexes, when the circular muscles tense.

First misteak this year!!

I have followed this with interest since presbyopia struck me in my early 50’s.

I now have the beginnings of cataracts and knew that presbyopia replacement lenses were on the horizon, so I have been following that too.

One interesting thing I ran across years ago was that a infant was able to grow a new lenses to replace the opaque ones she was born with using lens stem cells. I had hope for that.


Hi LittleRusty

All very interesting, thanks. As I said a post or two above, a musician colleague of mine went for this option, and was unhappy with the result, and is going to have the multifocal IOLS replaced with single vision ones. As far as I'm aware, he didn't have cataracts, and was trying to get rid of the issues that I am moaning about, but it sadly hasn't worked out successfully for him.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seymor B Fudd wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
I have a spare 15 minutes or so, will start replying lol.


Louise!
Bit older than you (born prior to the middle of last century)I do have the same problems (I think).
Not wanting to get lost in numbers all I can contribute with is this:
Having got my first bifocals I happily strolled away to the brassband rehearsal only to find that whenever I focused at the sheet in front of me I just couldn´t read it. If I did not focus, I could see it.....
So I realized that the need for another type of spectacles was at hand, subito!
At the "sight repair man´s" we discussed the distance to the sheet of music, tested back and forth finally arriving at an average setting. Whereafter I have been able to read music OK. The "strenght2 of the spectacles has been adjusted twice since. But now and then our director pulls out i.e. a march printed in the UK about the time of the first great war with miniscule signs,which causes me big problems - is that an Aflat or a Bflat or....(might also be very old french marches)I will have to lean forward thereby blurring the damn thing - in such cases I will have to ask my so much younger front row buddy (who by the way also translates what the director just said, me not hearing because of 1)ear protection 2)bad hearing).
Quite unsure if this helps but if not just announcing your´e not alone!


Hi Seymor

Thank you very much. Actually this does help, as you are describing exactly the issue I'm experiencing, and although not nice for you to be experiencing it also, as you say, it helps me realise that I'm not alone, and that others are experiencing the same.


It is good that you feel comfortable asking your colleague, and he or she is happy to help. That was what I had to do last time I wore my music glasses and ended up looking at small print with miniscule signs, hence me starting this thread in the first place. At least with my progressives, I can lean in and look for myself, but I can't generally see the music as well, as unless I want to have my head quite far back, I'm not really getting enough add.

I've taken my music glasses out of my bag for now, which will force me to experiment with music stand height and distance, to see if I can find something more comfortable and effective.

Thanks very much again

Take care and best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
huntman10 wrote:
Lou,

The problem I hit at 45 and you have hit is "presbyopia", the simple version is that at "middle age" (and I am now, I reluctantly must admit, more "elderly") your eyeball becomes less flexible. Your range of adjustment (by the muscles flattening or stretching the eyeball) becomes more difficult.

My understanding is that the lens becomes less flexible and compressible, not the eyeball.

Hi Little Rusty

Thanks very much. I believe that it is the combination of the hardening of the crystalline lens, and the reduction in efficiency of the ciliary muscles used to squeeze it, which sadly become deconditioned when reading glasses take over their work.


There are now replacement lenses that can be used as replacements for the existing lenses when performing cataract surgery that help with presbyopia.

Multifocal IOLs right? I have a friend who had this done, but regrets it, as he is not getting good vision xx

I personally use mono vision contact lenses. Left eye is distance, right is reading. It took about a week of wearing them for my brain to adapt.

Sadly, I don't think that this is for me, as even with glasses, I can tell if one eye is slightly blurred, and I couldn't get on with multifocal contact lenses, owing to the eye chosen to be more dominant for distance, seeming blurred to me. I think one issue, is that I don't have a dominant eye.

In Lou’s scenario, needing to have close up for annotating, a pair of off the shelf reading half glasses could provide annotation clarity and looking over the reading glasses would allow reading the chart and seeing the director.

I have prescription glasses that adjusts the reading eye to music stand distance, computer glasses that adapt both eyes for computer screen distance and driving glasses that make both eyes long distance.

I can definitely see how this can work well for people.

But I typically just use the no glasses mono vision option while performing.

I'm very glad that this works well for you.

Take care

Lou

Sorry that you seem to have tried things and they didn’t work out.

I had the same strong belief/hesitancy about mono vision. But after a week my brain worked it out. I do hate the haloing effect it has on lights at night. The blurry, close vision, eye ends up causing a halo around all lights. Hence my driving glasses.

Your comment about a dominant eye is interesting. The dominant eye never came up in the discussions with my eye doctor. Maybe he had different training or just made the decision for me.

In a only slightly related story from back in the dark ages when I was first fitted for contacts at my ophthalmologist I was leaning back in the exam chair, the doctor was holding open my eyelids and slowly lowering the contact onto my left eye.

All of a sudden the left eye decided it needed to get out of there and started turning in random directions to avoid the approaching finger. The right eye calmly continued to stare straight into the distance.

The doctor burst into laughter and stated he had never seen anyone do that before.
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
Thank you very much. Actually this does help, as you are describing exactly the issue I'm experiencing, and although not nice for you to be experiencing it also, as you say, it helps me realise that I'm not alone, and that others are experiencing the same.


Louise, no, you are not alone. You have probably already figured this out, but regular progressive lens are not the answer. While they are capable of focusing on various distances, the field of vision for reading is two restrictive. Trying to focus on the music is a lot like looking through a telescope.

That said, here in the U.S. I was able to get a pair of reading glasses that were a modified progressive lens with wide fields of vision for reading (adjusted to the distance your music generally rests when playing), but also has a small portion of the lens at the very top adjusted to the approximate distance of a conductor (or TV). These won't work for driving, but they are the best things I have yet found for reading music - and yet, they are a poor substitute of young eyes.

I was hoping that this thread would uncover the secret that has thus far eluded me.

More than you might guess, a bright light on the music stand helps. Additionally, large magnifying glasses are a last resort that come with several disadvantages: 1) they are yet one more thing to carry around, 2) they require the dedicated use of one hand and worse of all, 3) you instantly age 20 years when you use them.

Warm regards,
Grits
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grits Burgh wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
Thank you very much. Actually this does help, as you are describing exactly the issue I'm experiencing, and although not nice for you to be experiencing it also, as you say, it helps me realise that I'm not alone, and that others are experiencing the same.


Louise, no, you are not alone. You have probably already figured this out, but regular progressive lens are not the answer. While they are capable of focusing on various distances, the field of vision for reading is two restrictive. Trying to focus on the music is a lot like looking through a telescope.

Hi Grits

Thank you very much. My regular progressives are a good quality lens with the maximum possible progressive corridor length in a fairly large and fairly deep frame. Although I do find the intermediate corridor a little narrow for my 15" laptop screen, I find that it is adequate for a single page width of music (I can manage two pages side by side, but get better vision if I move the music from side to side, so that the page I am reading is in the middle of the stand), and the long progressive corridor allows for the top and bottom of music to be in focus at the same time. Regarding regular progressives, I think that mine are as good as they can be, but there is still the issue of having to move my head around more than I'd like, to get the part of music I am reading in its best focus. I actually find them fine for close reading.


That said, here in the U.S. I was able to get a pair of reading glasses that were a modified progressive lens with wide fields of vision for reading (adjusted to the distance your music generally rests when playing), but also has a small portion of the lens at the very top adjusted to the approximate distance of a conductor (or TV). These won't work for driving, but they are the best things I have yet found for reading music - and yet, they are a poor substitute of young eyes.

Thanks very much. There are options like this in the UK. I personally use Specsavers (a franchise if you don't have Specsavers in the US). They are limited in their own brand lens options (which is all they offer, as far as I am aware), but I go there, because I've found one of the store directors in the town in which I used to live (less than 20 miles away, so no problem with still going there), to be an excellent optometrist, and very good at understanding my needs.

Anyway, they do a lens similar to what you describe, but the excellent dispensing optician in the same branch, feels that this will not work well for me, as the corridor is too short and the near zone is too high, and would not work for my usual playing position of tilting my head back slightly and lifting up my bell, as I would end up looking through the near zone, which would be blurred at my music distance. There are a few independent opticians in town who offer a lot more options, and I may very well visit one of those, to see what options are available to me.


I was hoping that this thread would uncover the secret that has thus far eluded me.

Sadly no lol. Sounds like we getting into Indiana Jones territory, elixir of eternal youth and so on lol.

More than you might guess, a bright light on the music stand helps.

Thank you very much. I do have rechargeable stand light, but don't generally use it for rehearsals.

Additionally, large magnifying glasses are a last resort that come with several disadvantages: 1) they are yet one more thing to carry around, 2) they require the dedicated use of one hand and worse of all, 3) you instantly age 20 years when you use them.

Yes, I think that I'll try to avoid this option lol. After a lot of stand moving backwards and forwards and up and down, I did manage to find a stand height, which allowed my regular progressives to work acceptably well for playing the flute, which I find a lot more troublesome in this regard than the trumpet/cornet, owing to differences in posture and head position, at least with the way I play.

I've decided that I'm going to stick with my regular progressives for now, and visit a local independent optician with more lens options, if I feel that I'm not getting acceptable vision. I just don't get a large enough range of working distances with any single vision options. Possibly I could split the difference between my +0.75 music glasses and +1.25 laptop glasses, and try +1.00, which may allow me to more easily move my music stand in for march card size music with tiny print, but I'm still going to be under corrected for leaning in to see something small, or when annotating parts, and a +1.00 add is going to make a far conductor even more blurred than a +0.75 add. I feel that I've got to find a better option, as things will only get worse when my reading increases (hopefully not in the anywhere near future).

Warm regards,
Grits

Warm regards to you too

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Differing Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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