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"Broken Embochure" help



 
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trumpet776
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Joined: 17 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:47 pm    Post subject: "Broken Embochure" help Reply with quote

Hi all,

I am working through correcting the bad habit and inefficient setting of my lower lip no aligning with my upper lip....in very much the fashion that Jeff labels the broken embouchure. Seems to be something I have dealt with for a long time...and makes perfect sense why I work overtime to play, and have limited range and endurance. Anyone else work through this issue, and recommendations for focus areas to help with getting the lower lip out and engaged properly?
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JWG
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Joined: 27 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strong muscle foundation of embouchure prevents getting a "broken embouchure." Try free buzzing and/or mouthpiece buzzing and using a Warburton P.E.T.E., and then get yourself on a managed, daily practice schedule that includes sufficient breaks. Once muscles become strong, then you can control corners and aperture elements of embouchure. With strong corner muscles and aperture control, a robust embouchure becomes possible.
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omelet
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How long have you been at BE? IIRC the method is supposed to push you in the right direction without focusing on changing.
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trumpet776
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Joined: 17 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

I should have provided more context. I have been playing trumpet since I was in middle school. After college I was off and on for a while with being able to practice, and am now getting back into more regular playing. It seems that falling into this mode of playing allowed me to produce a somewhat useable sound, but impacts endurance and range (of which I also know my sound could be so much better as well). I had a copy of BE from back in the college days and was re-reading it, and in particular this is called out in the back section near the "bag of tricks" area. It is certainly something I am struggling with now as a comeback player....and knowing that it is not correct/efficient is something I want to correct. I am also interested in getting a teacher near my location in Texas to get back on the right path. Open to all suggestions as I rebuild my my chops to be more consistent.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Start using some controlled rim pressure on your lower lip and teeth.

That will likely require that you actively adjust your jaw to achieve the pressure. Some pressure can be made by changing the angle of the mouthpiece (horn tilt) on your face, but you must USE your jaw to make the position of the lower teeth stable enough to provide resistance onto the rim.
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improver
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say the fact that you are trying to line up, whatever that means, your top lip and bottom lip is your problem. I've never heard of that. You're overthinking it. Just put it up there in a comfortable position lock your corners and blow in the hole of the mouthpiece. Your lips will buzz naturally.
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LFRoberts5
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Joined: 12 Nov 2002
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Location: St. Louis

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do TOL on everything...
I try to get the really buzzy tone on the pedals with the lower lip "pad" engaged alot.
I try to feel the "pad" on the lower lip with I do the RI's
Hope this helps!
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mike ansberry
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Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried to play the exercises exactly as described in the book and striving to achieve the same sound as the kids had on the recordings without thinking about trying to make my embouchure do anything in particular. I worked the BE exercises in my first practice session of the day. Then I would go about playing my other music as usual. Over a period of months my embouchure changed without me making it do anything consciously. I did develop air pockets but I didn't worry about them. My playing got better but I didn't have a drastic embouchure. Over a period of time I morphed into a completely different embouchure.

Also, I believe LFRoberts5 is correct. TOL will help with lip alignment.
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the exercices in the book may provide better help than others;the very simple "Crescendo" together with the TOL studies really helped me arrive at aligning - as did the zips!
This is so personal!
Funny thing, these airpockets. For me they were a natural bi-product when blowing the RI:s. Then, in "regular" playing I found that they seemed to "kick in" roughly at G top of staff. Today I have come to use a combinationn of RI and RO...not automatically developing an airpocket under my nose, sort of; instead my tongue towards a "whistling" shape, tip of tongue close to the lower front teeth, lipcorners rather firm, lips aligned. Inflated top lip now at my will so to speak.
But that´s me.

So practice all the studies in the book, maybe some of them are more beneficial than others - then give them extra time. At least notice what happens - what is conscious now later might become subconscious!
Thinking of that - personally I´ve found that I will have to do a warm up prior to starting the BE - I´m using the Laurie Frink studies ( https://daveballou.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/AnIntegratedWarmup.pdf )very good; every time I use them I find that yesterdays practice of the BE has added something new - without me reflecting.
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