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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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Location: Orange County, CA
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 Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| trpthrld wrote: | I don't think there is enough industrial-strength cleaner east of the Mississippi to cleanse my ears and brain from that.
And apparently his interpretation of written articulation and note values comes down to simply "whatevs." |
You know, I was tempted to give it a listen but now I'm not so sure.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
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EdMann
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Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 2481
Location: The Big Valley
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| trpthrld wrote: | I don't think there is enough industrial-strength cleaner east of the Mississippi to cleanse my ears and brain from that.
And apparently his interpretation of written articulation and note values comes down to simply "whatevs." |
And someone liked this? |
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trpthrld
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Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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Jaw04
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Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 900
Location: Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | | trpthrld wrote: | I don't think there is enough industrial-strength cleaner east of the Mississippi to cleanse my ears and brain from that.
And apparently his interpretation of written articulation and note values comes down to simply "whatevs." |
You know, I was tempted to give it a listen but now I'm not so sure. |
It's bad, it's not comically bad but the phrasing and rhythm is amateur and the tone sucks. The accuracy is good, he doesn't chip notes, so that's good.
It is not an example of good trumpet playing, and I don't need to post myself playing it to have the credentials to say that. |
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delano
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| trickg wrote: | | delano wrote: | | Some here simply don't agree with this but that has nothing to do with Kurt's playing. In fact nobody here has criticized the playing of KT. |
There are at least two instances in the thread above where his playing was criticized. I can quote them back to you if you'd like.
The issue at hand when it comes to KT is that people can't separate the playing from the person - KT crafted a reputation for himself here on the TH, and people have a very hard time getting past that.
I tend to see it kind of like HERMOKIWI, and I'll paraphrase - "put up or shut up." |
Yeah nice words, but I know where they come from.
But there is another reason I did not and did not want to give comment on KT's playing. You see, this is a video. While it's apparent that he's actually playing in the video, we don't know if that's what we're hearing. It's quite likely he recorded that in a studio, got the recording he wanted, and then filmed the video over the top of the audio.
Maybe you don't know but in this digital era almost everything is possible to fake. And in fact this phenomenon is quite old, let I give you an example (scroll to 0'50):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcb5TGy37o4&ab_channel=WarnerArchive
It may look to you that (capt?) Kirk is playing here but that is not true, Kirk may have had a few trumpet lessons but the actual playing was done by Harry James, so they told me.
So in KT's clip there is a real possibility that what we saw in the video may not have been a live take - it's very likely that he recorded the audio separately in the studio and then "lip syched" to that audio recording for the purposes of the video.
So we can't draw any conclusions. Heck, we can't even be absolutely sure that this was HIM! We can assume it was - is anyone really that dishonest?
Last edited by delano on Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GeorgeB
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Joined: 20 Apr 2016
Posts: 1063
Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Well, whether that was him playing live in that video or lip syncing, I didn't think KT's playing was all that bad. And, like Patrick, even if I thought it was bad I wouldn't criticize it because I know I can't play better than KT.
George
PS: And, as delano stated, that truly was Harry James playing for Kirk Douglas in Young Man With A Horn.
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GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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delano
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| The funny thing of TH is that even on posts there is an awful lot of reverb. |
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trickg
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5677
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| GeorgeB wrote: | Well, whether that was him playing live in that video or lip syncing, I didn't think KT's playing was all that bad. And, like Patrick, even if I thought it was bad I wouldn't criticize it because I know I can't play better than KT.
George
PS: And, as delano stated, that truly was Harry James playing for Kirk Douglas in Young Man With A Horn. |
I'm pretty sure I play classical repertoire better than KT. Just sayin.
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Patrick Gleason
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | So in KT's clip there is a real possibility that what we saw in the video may not have been a live take - it's very likely that he recorded the audio separately in the studio and then "lip syched" to that audio recording for the purposes of the video. |
The video was done in 4 sections spliced together. If he was pretending to play over a recording he would have done the video in one continuous section.
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trpthrld
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trickg
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | Yeah nice words... |
The only people in this thread who know the inanity of what you are posting are me and you. This is not that thread, and this is not that argument.
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Patrick Gleason
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HackAmateur
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Joined: 10 Jul 2021
Posts: 80
Location: Kentucky
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: |
It's a little bit a guess but your concept of a good trumpet sound seems to be something like a commercial, bright sound. |
Your guess is half right. I have multiple concepts of a good trumpet sound, but I consider the "ideal" sound a bright, rich, "sizzling" commercial sound. This is only because I prefer soundtrack music, musical theater music, and commercial solo stuff including pop music (but only pop music composed with intermediate complexity harmonies, not the I-vi-IV-V permanent vamp you hear on American radio stations).
When I hear someone like Alison Balsom or maybe Chris Botti, that's not my ideal sound I prefer to hear, but they're definitely good trumpet sounds.
The reason for my sound concept being this way is because of the kind of music I prefer from a compositional standpoint. I like soundtrack music (both film and video game), I like musical theater stuff (e.g., Broadway productions), and I like pop music that deviates from the cookie cutter harmonies I'm familiar with in the United States (e.g., Japanese Pop Music is a perfect example where this kind of harmonic complexity is very common). You know, pop music with a lot of spice added to it.
I have a strong preference for intermediate (in terms of music theory) harmonies... things that are accessible for a general audience, but also interesting to a musician analyzing it using music theory. Stuff that is beautiful to both the general public and music academics. Great American examples of this are Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder, though Ray Charles is more jazz and Stevie Wonder is more "elevated harmony" pop.
| Quote: | A classical, orchestral trumpet player nowadays has a BIG sound but not 'dark' as that concept is used in jazz, sometimes even with the use of a flügelhorn.
The classical sound is big but with loads of resonance which make the sound living and singing. In fact it's a great sound and I fell completely for it. In fact the only right way to learn to appreciate it is hearing it in a live situation. |
Big sound is what I meant when I said "fat" orchestral tone. So, I think we might have gotten mixed up with semantics a little bit. It's hard for me to describe what I mean by "edgy" classical soloist tone, though. It's tough to describe what I mean by "edgy". But basically, I'm referring to players like Sergei and Alison's tone characteristics when I say that. It's what makes the difference (to my ears) between a random trumpet player in the orchestra versus Sergei or Alison. That difference is what I'm calling "edgy" classical soloist tone.
There's probably a better way to describe it, but audio of those players speaks for itself way better than I could type a description of it!
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As a composer, I will never write "B Sharp", "C Flat", "E Sharp", or "F Flat". I don't care what the key signature is. I'm not an academic; I'm a musician.
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HackAmateur
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Joined: 10 Jul 2021
Posts: 80
Location: Kentucky
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| trpthrld wrote: | I don't think there is enough industrial-strength cleaner east of the Mississippi to cleanse my ears and brain from that.
And apparently his interpretation of written articulation and note values comes down to simply "whatevs." |
Well, it's a solo he recorded with a backing track. So, as long as his articulation and rhythms strongly resemble the original ones, in the context of a solo w/accompaniment track, the player ought to have the freedom to play it in their own style.
If he was in an ensemble situation, his interpretation of the written articulation and note values would be awful, but this is a solo with accompaniment track. lol
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As a composer, I will never write "B Sharp", "C Flat", "E Sharp", or "F Flat". I don't care what the key signature is. I'm not an academic; I'm a musician.
-Bach Strad 180 series 37
-Schilke 15
-Bob Reeves s692s w/ custom rim |
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GeorgeB
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Joined: 20 Apr 2016
Posts: 1063
Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| trickg wrote: |
I'm pretty sure I play classical repertoire better than KT. Just sayin. |
I wouldn't doubt that for a moment, Patrick.
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GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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delano
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| GeorgeB wrote: | | trickg wrote: |
I'm pretty sure I play classical repertoire better than KT. Just sayin. |
I wouldn't doubt that for a moment, Patrick. |
??? What makes you so sure? (I have really no idea). |
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2581
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| HackAmateur wrote: | | trpthrld wrote: | I don't think there is enough industrial-strength cleaner east of the Mississippi to cleanse my ears and brain from that.
And apparently his interpretation of written articulation and note values comes down to simply "whatevs." |
Well, it's a solo he recorded with a backing track. So, as long as his articulation and rhythms strongly resemble the original ones, in the context of a solo w/accompaniment track, the player ought to have the freedom to play it in their own style.
If he was in an ensemble situation, his interpretation of the written articulation and note values would be awful, but this is a solo with accompaniment track. lol |
Absolutely correct.
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2581
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | GeorgeB wrote: | | trickg wrote: |
I'm pretty sure I play classical repertoire better than KT. Just sayin. |
I wouldn't doubt that for a moment, Patrick. |
??? What makes you so sure? (I have really no idea). |
For jazz improvisation I think I could play circles around Kurt. For playing the lead book in a big band, however, I wouldn't want to go head to head (or horn to horn) with him, I think he can play that pretty well, a lot better than I could.
Thankfully (for me), I don't want to play the lead book in a big band. Give me the 3rd book, however, and I won't disappoint.
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trickg
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5677
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | GeorgeB wrote: | | trickg wrote: |
I'm pretty sure I play classical repertoire better than KT. Just sayin. |
I wouldn't doubt that for a moment, Patrick. |
??? What makes you so sure? (I have really no idea). |
I made my living as a full-time active duty Army trumpet player for 10 years. Even if I don't have the chops I had back in those days, I'm not exactly a hack, and even though I made a lot of money over the years playing commercial-type music, my background prior to that was classical - lots and lots of church playing, brass quintet, etc.
There's no way I'd want to go head to head with him on commercial or lead playing, but I hold my own when it comes to classical repertoire, playing with a good sound, intonation, phrasing, etc.
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
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- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| trpthrld wrote: | | cheiden wrote: | | trpthrld wrote: | I don't think there is enough industrial-strength cleaner east of the Mississippi to cleanse my ears and brain from that.
And apparently his interpretation of written articulation and note values comes down to simply "whatevs." |
You know, I was tempted to give it a listen but now I'm not so sure. |
Please...PLEASE...don't let me be the only one.
What would we talk about at the reunion?  |
Okay, I did it. My strongest reaction is to wonder why anybody is getting particularly excited about this trifle of a video. The song and the production are garden-variety karaoke stuff. There's not really much in way of creativity to be judged. His tone and approach are fine for some stuff and I won't fault anyone for liking it. What I don't hear is anything particularly excellent by any metric.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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HackAmateur
Regular Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2021
Posts: 80
Location: Kentucky
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | | trpthrld wrote: | | cheiden wrote: | | trpthrld wrote: | I don't think there is enough industrial-strength cleaner east of the Mississippi to cleanse my ears and brain from that.
And apparently his interpretation of written articulation and note values comes down to simply "whatevs." |
You know, I was tempted to give it a listen but now I'm not so sure. |
Please...PLEASE...don't let me be the only one.
What would we talk about at the reunion? |
Okay, I did it. My strongest reaction is to wonder why anybody is getting particularly excited about this trifle of a video. The song and the production are garden-variety karaoke stuff. There's not really much in way of creativity to be judged. His tone and approach are fine for some stuff and I won't fault anyone for liking it. What I don't hear is anything particularly excellent by any metric. |
The 'metric' is KT's past videos... and the metric is also that I like pop music with intermediate harmonies. But mainly, I was just surprised that KT played this with good musicality, considering nothing I've seen from him in the past was musical.
We all know that he can sure scream high notes, but this is the first example I've seen of him playing some high notes in a musical way. The high E at the end was a nice touch and the other notes above the staff weren't loud and crass I expected from him.
He has been uploading trumpet videos for like a decade, so I think it's fair game to point out the fact he played this with a pretty good tone. What's wrong with pointing out the fact that somebody's tone is getting better after a decade of harsh, unmusical high note playing? lol
_________________
As a composer, I will never write "B Sharp", "C Flat", "E Sharp", or "F Flat". I don't care what the key signature is. I'm not an academic; I'm a musician.
-Bach Strad 180 series 37
-Schilke 15
-Bob Reeves s692s w/ custom rim |
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