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HackAmateur Regular Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2021 Posts: 80 Location: Kentucky
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:48 pm Post subject: Who Else Gets Bummed Out About Fundamentals? And... |
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So, today was Monday. I practiced for 2.5 hours, divided into three sessions. It was me using my orchestral mouthpiece (my plain old Schilke 15) to practice... basic fundamentals. The entire time.
Man, I didn't want to even practice that third segment today. I was feeling burned out and just wanted to ignore the fact that Max Schlossberg was calling my name... lol
I'm a comeback player who has been back playing trumpet since January 2019. Some of you folks have been playing consistently for WAY longer than me. So, how many of you get bummed out about doing your basic fundamentals or revisiting them?
More importantly: what do you DO about it when this burnout or boredom strikes?
Sometimes, I start losing focus before a practice segment is even over (if it's something I've done hundreds of times). But, I continue pushing forward until I'm done.
How in the world can I keep things fresh? Should I spontaneously switch up my routine when I'm feeling ultra bored with it?
I don't know. I just feel like there's a way to make the repetition of revisiting your basic fundamentals less boring. I know that I can't "master" the trumpet without repetition and correct practice. But holy crap, sometimes I have to ignore a feeling of burnout of dread when I'm pulling out my trumpet on Mondays... because I know it's "fundamentals day" for me each week, which means playing things I've played hundreds of times, maybe even over a thousand times.
So what do you guys do about this? I know I can't be the only person who opens my case with a haggard frown knowing I'm about to play long tones for the 800th time. LOL
How do I make some of this repetition a little bit less soul crushing?
P.S. Sometimes, it doesn't feel like this and I'm motivated. But we all know that nobody has infinite motivation. _________________ As a composer, I will never write "B Sharp", "C Flat", "E Sharp", or "F Flat". I don't care what the key signature is. I'm not an academic; I'm a musician.
-Bach Strad 180 series 37
-Schilke 15
-Bob Reeves s692s w/ custom rim |
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mike ansberry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Posts: 1605 Location: Clarksville, Tn
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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There are several things that I do to keep my interest up.
Listening to recordings of trumpet players that I like.
Play tunes for fun. When I was young back in the 1960's, I got a Tijuana Brass book. I had several of their albums and I loved to play along with the recordings. Some of them are very accessible for a neophyte player.
I have Band In A Box. With it you can input the chords from any song in just about any genre and play along with it.
Get together with other players. Play duets, trios, etc. There are many collections of small ensemble music. Some of them can be played with any instrumentation if the members have matching books for their instrument.
Practicing fundamentals is important, but it can become drudgery. Ya gotta have some fun. _________________ Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8331 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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To be honest, playing lots of fundamentals doesn't bother me. I need more motivation to actually WORK on stuff.
Also, I'm kind of terrible at practicing without a regular gig or something external providing motivation. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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blbaumgarn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:36 pm Post subject: who else gets bummed out about fundamentals, and... |
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Here's my perspective. As a young one playing trumpet it never bothered me doing lots and lots of fundamental drills. It didn't change as I grew and then later in life when I was simply playing in groups and municipal band. It all starts with and relates back to being fundamentally strong. Along the way I also played h.s. and college football, then coached college ball for 9 years. The person who I played for and coached with made the comment once that, "you always loved practice." So, I told him that everything starts and builds on the fundamentals. Now, he also said I was a rare bird that liked going back to doing football drills again in the middle of a season, but we used to do that. In music it is the basis for everything and it grounds one. If you don't find it easy to get motivated you aren't alone at all. If I was having trouble getting motivated I would think about what we want the end product to be, musically, or athletically. Good Luck. _________________ "There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 1991 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:07 am Post subject: |
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When something that you are presumably doing for fun starts to feel like drudgery, it might be time to reassess your approach. You don't have to (exclusively) play fundamentals to develop your fundamental skills. Incorporate some music (etudes, standards, performance pieces) into the mix. Think of it as applied fundamentals if it helps.
Think about all of the ways you can incorporate your fundamentals into an easy etude. You could transpose it. You could ignore written articulations and work on articulation that way: Play it staccato, then legato, then marcato -- or vary every few measures. Double or triple tongue it. Play it up an octave to work on range. Grab a measure with intervals in it and turn it into a mini interval study: tongue, slur two, slur all....
Also, think about how you might be able to compress your fundamentals to make more time for the aspects of trumpet playing that you enjoy more. For example, when you are playing scales or arpeggios, turn them into your articulation and multiple tonguing studies as well.
Try changing a study you are bored with to make it more interesting and useful. For example, if you are playing Clarke's first technical study, add octave displacements. You could do that by note, by measure...whatever.
Finally, when you really need to shed your fundamentals, give yourself a wider range of material to work with. If Irons and Colin flexibility studies are getting stale, check out Scott Belck's books. They'll definitely keep your mind engaged. Getting bored with Clarke's Technical Studies? Check out Pat Harbison's and Chris Kase's books of technical studies. Arban's multiple tonguing section not motivating you? Switch to Vizzuti's method. And, whenever you can, work on music as well. Grab difficult tonguing sections from solo or band literature and make that your "exercise."
Have fun! |
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camelbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2002 Posts: 1397 Location: Dubai, UAE
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:49 am Post subject: |
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Dayton, what great advice!! |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1459 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:08 am Post subject: |
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Another one so I'm not the only one. Guess we make up a fairly big bunch. Way more than the dirty dozen.
But there is a trick: ignore the feeling!
Seriously this is an ongoing ailment so you will have to find a cure. I'm 78 so I have been practicing since I was 15. Most of the time every day. Weird. Kind of an obsession. Sitting behind a skilfully bent array of tubes, holding it until your arms start hurting staring at signs unintelligble for the overwhelming part of mankind, at best producing sounds at the far end of the complicated pipeline.
You will have to get yourself motivated. Find a routine that provides most bang for the bucks. By that I mean a routine that really takes care of the essential variables. Not that easy to find. I've spent many years by practicing the Advanced lip flexibilities by Ch Colin. Result: ability to play high, for a long time, somewhat pinched lips but it helped me play lead& front row. So I thought. What motivated me was playing in a brass band and in a bigband. practiced say 30 minutes a day. And I kept a fairly high (amateur) standard. I was young (for a rather long time..). But all of a sudden I wasn't that young any longer finding that I had to practice a lot more - chops broke. On the verge of giving it all up. Back on track I realized something's gotta change if I were to regain chops and motivation. One significant variable turned out to be the BE method. Man! Speaking of most bang for the bucks. Concentrated on the fundamentals! Then I needed a warm up routine that took care of many issues at the same time: the warm up routines by Laurie Frink. Today memorized so I don't have to stare.... Even more bigbands, tricky brass band scores providing both motivation, additional technical exercices ( it's sometimes boring but also fun to find that you master the intricate runs of Wilhelm Tell, Poet&peasant - albeit having to practice them say during the last 50 years or so).
You need to realize that you will have to be the volountary trumpeter. Your choice. Not that easy. At one point the big band charts seemed out of reach so I had to practice much, in fact came close to the point where the fun of it suddenly threatened to become sheer pain. Exit the delight. Watch out for that tipping point!
So: it doesn't come cheaply - at least not for me. Don't lie to yourself. I think you will have to look upon it as a project - always try to set a goal ( or several).
As for myself - I know that I'm weird. There is something Asbergian and at the same time Hysteric ( in fact a rather impossible combination) at work.
But when your'e in the middle of that Wilhelm Tell overture or beginning the cantabile part of Trumpet Blues....wow - I am sailing yes I am sailing...home again... _________________ Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
Last edited by Seymor B Fudd on Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:45 am Post subject: |
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I don't get bored because since I started playing again in 2016 I play 2 hours a day in two 1 hour sessions.
In the morning session I do fundamentals.
In the afternoon session I play the tunes I love, and sometimes go a little over the hour if things are going well. Nah. I never get bored. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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THE BD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2005 Posts: 897 Location: Columbus, Oh-hi-uh
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:12 am Post subject: |
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Dayton wrote: | When something that you are presumably doing for fun starts to feel like drudgery, it might be time to reassess your approach. You don't have to (exclusively) play fundamentals to develop your fundamental skills. Incorporate some music (etudes, standards, performance pieces) into the mix. Think of it as applied fundamentals if it helps.
Think about all of the ways you can incorporate your fundamentals into an easy etude. You could transpose it. You could ignore written articulations and work on articulation that way: Play it staccato, then legato, then marcato -- or vary every few measures. Double or triple tongue it. Play it up an octave to work on range. Grab a measure with intervals in it and turn it into a mini interval study: tongue, slur two, slur all....
Also, think about how you might be able to compress your fundamentals to make more time for the aspects of trumpet playing that you enjoy more. For example, when you are playing scales or arpeggios, turn them into your articulation and multiple tonguing studies as well.
Try changing a study you are bored with to make it more interesting and useful. For example, if you are playing Clarke's first technical study, add octave displacements. You could do that by note, by measure...whatever.
Finally, when you really need to shed your fundamentals, give yourself a wider range of material to work with. If Irons and Colin flexibility studies are getting stale, check out Scott Belck's books. They'll definitely keep your mind engaged. Getting bored with Clarke's Technical Studies? Check out Pat Harbison's and Chris Kase's books of technical studies. Arban's multiple tonguing section not motivating you? Switch to Vizzuti's method. And, whenever you can, work on music as well. Grab difficult tonguing sections from solo or band literature and make that your "exercise."
Have fun! |
This 100% is what I do myself and with all my students! Make it fun, and give the exercises and techniques you are doing real world applications. _________________ Martin D Williams
Yeah, I did that! |
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patdublc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 1049 Location: Salisbury, MD
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:23 am Post subject: |
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I absolutely do NOT get bummed about fundamentals. My favorite practice days are the ones where I have time to be Caruso, Schlossberg, and Clarke TS 1-5 then start to explore some other things.
The days that I get bummed are when I have limited time and have to short my fundamentals. _________________ Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models. |
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deleted_user_7354402 New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:05 am Post subject: |
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Dayton offers some great suggestions. I only wanted to follow up with a couple of thought:
1. Keep a practice journal of some sort- If journaling you can set little achievable challenges each day for yourself. That may increase your motivation just by having a plan of progress and sticking to it. But also in the journal you can use it to reflect on what is working in the music or etude you’re playing and what is not. If something is not working that would lead me to the second thought.
2. Ask “why”- Reflection about what you are working on improving can really help you guide your fundamental type practicing. Is what you are working on causing you to get tongue tied, does your airflow get interrupted, is your pitch wonky, tone get thin… those are thoughts to notice and figure out which fundamental exercise helps you improve.
3. Along Dayton’s lines…. variety…: If Schlossberg is calling you but you’d rather ghost him, maybe go for a book that looks like Schlossberg with a different personality Tom Stevens “After Schlossberg” or Dan Rosenboom “Boom Method” can offer insights and new challenges to Schlossberg type exercises, help keeping the practice fresh. Other ways to keep the practice dressy, play along to a drum beat app, practice half tempo/double tempo, change the mode of a Schlossberg or do similar slur patterns in different interval combinations, etc… Other great orchestral Etudes that say hi to Schlossberg concepts. Brandt Wtudes, Boehme Etudes, Hering Orchestral Etudes, Rene Laurent, Clarke Characteristic Etudes… all good ways to work on fundamentals while keeping it fresh.
4. Play with someone. Either call our a friend and play diets or call up a teacher you know and play for them. With a friend, you may find what is or isn’t working or something in their sound or playing you want to emulate…. That can help. With a teacher, they can maybe give you some suggestions as to what might be the next thing to help you.
I could go on and on but I thought these ideas were worth suggesting. I tend to think of fundamentals as assessment and reinforcement tools rather than something I need to touch on. (I play plenty (probably too much)so I try to condense the fundamentals into , what do I do this exercise, what am I getting from it, is another exercise accomplishing the same thing just quicker, or the last one, why am I struggling with this exercise. Fundamentals can be perfected (to a degree) but they are never permanently ingrained; they have to be reinforced. Sometimes though direct attention, sometimes indirect attention, and sometimes the solutions are in completely different areas (tongue a slur exercise, treat a Schlossberg arpeggio the same way you would Chicowicz or Stamp flow studies. A lot will be revealed.
I hope some of these thoughts help. Enjoy the process. [/youtube] |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3276 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:48 am Post subject: |
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Get sheet music of some tunes that you enjoy playing - fake books, etc.
I like the Hal Leonard Real Dixieland book, and there are many books of standards / ballads / blues / show tunes / etc.
There are many 'pirated copies' on internet, but buying printed books gives better size and easier handling than lots of loose sheets of printed paper.
Get proficient with about 12 pieces and go play outdoors at a park or street corner. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Good advice, Jay.
I keep my sheet music in binders and with sheet protectors. I must have about 2000 tunes by now with everything from Ballads to some classics. Some came from books and some from the internet. I even still have some old dog-eared original sheet music of singles from the hit parade days in the 50's. These I used for my 5 piece Combo, for teen dances, weddings, etc. during the 50's and early 60's. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:26 am Post subject: |
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Every once in a while I post these notes taken by Tim Kent over the years from his time with Bud Herseth in the Chicago Symphony.
Many of these important points apply to this very post.
Basically, when you practice anything, make it musical.
Play tunes as well as exercises.
Herseth was always practicing. I have a dear friend who spent many hours with him in the section at Ravinia and Orchestra Hall as well as lessons with him. He always remarks Bud was always in his basement practicing.
Herseth stressed make it souind like music!
http://ojtrumpet.net/herseth/herseth_notes.html
R. Tomasek |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 722 Location: SE US
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:32 am Post subject: |
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During the isolation of musical interaction, live performance limitations, and routine drudgery that Covid brought, I determined to become familiar with another trumpet voice if for no other reason than the thrill of exploration, a fresh fantasy so to speak. For the first time in my life, I ventured into the challenge of attempting Piccolo trumpet, bringing into view a whole new set of requirements that I hadn't known before. Sandwiching piccolo between Bb and C Warm ups, practice routines and Warm downs 3 or 4 days a week introduced new (to me) aspects of breathing, phrasing and musical concept bringing a different perspective to the basics pointing to nuances and challenges that had apparently been masked in the familiar. This vista has changed and renewed my daily desire to become a more broadly challenged player and keeps the Learner in me excited about playing every day. _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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loudog Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2001 Posts: 1439 Location: Hastings, NE
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:38 am Post subject: |
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I really like using timers with practicing fundamentals. Set a countdown timer for 10 minutes, and then use that time to practice ONE thing...like double tonguing. Try to improve, and be super focused during those 10 minutes. Then take a 5 minute break. Then 10 minutes on practicing something else. You'll be amazed at what you can get done. The rest is also important for your face.
Plan out your practice session. Create a chart...stay organized. Write down some goals and track your progress. This can really help!
Contact me if you want to get together for a Zoom session and we can talk about this kind of stuff!
Best,
Louie _________________ -----------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Louie Eckhardt, trumpeter
http://www.LouieEckhardt.com
Associate Professor of Music
Hastings College |
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picctpt33 Regular Member
Joined: 07 Aug 2019 Posts: 96
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that listening to your favorite pros play is a good way to keep your motivation to practice fundamentals high |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6126 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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No problem. I just keep reminding myself I don't want to be just another hack. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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MusicByThePound Regular Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2017 Posts: 24 Location: Upstate NY
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Join a band(s). Any kind of band. The more the better. |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10202 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Just think of fundamentals as music. _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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