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Who Else Gets Bummed Out About Fundamentals? And...


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HackAmateur
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Joined: 10 Jul 2021
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Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeorgeB wrote:
trickg wrote:
I probably could have kept pushing - certainly if I had a gig that I had to play I would have had to make it work, but last night I felt that discretion was the better part of valor, I did some low long tones for a bit, then put the horn away - hopefully it goes better tonight.


I wondered what you did when you have a bad day. When I got them in the past I use to try and work through them, but sometimes that only made things worse. Now I just put the horn down and go at it the next day. Most of the times that will do the trick, but now and then I can end up with two bad days in a row. I never had many bad days when I was younger, so maybe having two bad days in a row is an age thing.


Honestly, I agree with most of what you said here. I do something SLIGHTLY different than you on "bad days", though.

On "bad days", I exclusive focus on tone. Literally tone-only days. I play at normal volume, too, not "soft playing" because, on bad days, soft playing isn't helpful to me, even though it's helpful to a lot of other players.

And I keep the practice session short, like maybe 30 minutes total. Then, I put the horn away and try again tomorrow!

If I have a performance scheduled that day, I do a tone-focused warmup, play a few high notes at the end of my 15 or 20 minute warmup, put the horn away and hope to God later that day that my performance doesn't suck TOO bad. lol
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes me wonder: what is meant by a "bad day"??
To me this means that I, in some way or another, over-used my chops the day before - put in simple words.
Resulting in reduced ability to vibrate, lips don´t feel soft, instead stiff - doesn´t help if I go on with technical stuff or anything more "advanced".
Cure: taking it easy, .e. using double pedals (softly and carefaully). Playing softly in the lower register.
Carefully monitoring the state of my lips - becoming sensitively aware of what might possibly harm them.
Then of course - even with chops in excellent condition - during a gig, there´s always the risk to suddenly, press too much, putting the mouthpiece off it´s normal place or what not, that might harm the lips.
Very much like the athlete who suddenly overstrains a muscle, developing a thigh condition. You may see this all the time in soccer games -someone suddenly beginning to limp. So easy does it- always watch out for overuse, numbing, playing in spite of being tired etc etc. Lactid acid building up.
Edit: oh I forgot to mention the daily variations of our system! For reasons very difficult to ascertain I think that our physical (and psychic) system varies. Some nights you sleep well, other nights not so; some days you feel strong and alert, somedays your´e sluggish; our response to the climate (too hot, too dry, too humid too...). Of course this affects our playing. On and off we have a discussion here about physical fitness: Of course this matters. Be prepared, and prepare yourself. Mens sana in corpore sano!
Then a bad day may mean, to me, that "the spirit is not willing"...(I know doesn´t want to..).and the flesh is weak - go read a book, take a long walk - curse the "fuerzas majores". Next day will be better. Easy to say when you feel beaten to the ground....wanting to give up playing (although you know that this isn´t an option). The sun will rise again!
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Last edited by Seymor B Fudd on Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:23 am; edited 2 times in total
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ebolton
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had a broken finger on my right hand. The hardware used to treat it has prevented me from using the valves on the trumpet for a few weeks. I've been doing a lot of lip slurs and working on tonguing. It doesn't get much more fundamental than that. I've seen a healthy jump in my range during this period, but it's been pretty dull.
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MarkD
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@hackamature, I don’t know how to get you to “lighten-up” on your focus, but I had an idea that might sound crazy but I think would be a good way to “freshen up” one’s practice routine.

Take some index cards and divide into categories such as:

FLEXIBILITY: for slurring, etc, exercises
LONG TONES:
TECHNICAL STUDIES: for articulation, fingering, intervals, etc
MUSIC/ETUDES:
ENDURANCE/RANGE:

For each category refer to the exercises you do for that subject, one exercise per card.

For example, for FLEXIBILITY, you might write “Arban pg. 42”. Another card might say “Gordon pg. xx”, or you can refer to a single exercise you found online and printed- “Colin #2”.

When finished you should have several cards for each category. Keep the categories separate and shuffle the cards. Then each day pick a card from each category and that will be your routine for the day.

This is just an example- set it up whatever way works for you, but the principal remains the same.
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MarkD
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@hackamature, I don’t know how to get you to “lighten-up” on your focus, but I had an idea that might sound crazy but I think would be a good way to “freshen up” one’s practice routine.

Take some index cards and divide into categories such as:

FLEXIBILITY: for slurring, etc, exercises
LONG TONES:
TECHNICAL STUDIES: for articulation, fingering, intervals, etc
MUSIC/ETUDES:
ENDURANCE/RANGE:

For each category refer to the exercises you do for that subject, one exercise per card.

For example, for FLEXIBILITY, you might write “Arban pg. 42”. Another card might say “Gordon pg. xx”, or you can refer to a single exercise you found online and printed- “Colin #2”.

When finished you should have several cards for each category. Keep the categories separate and shuffle the cards. Then each day pick a card from each category and that will be your routine for the day.

This is just an example- set it up whatever way works for you, but the principal remains the same.
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rdubin
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:05 am    Post subject: Moment to Moment Reply with quote

No need to push against the "boredom."
Lean into it. Notice the feeling, slow down, pay close attention to the sound. In truth nothing is ever exactly the same. Learning to discern the moment to moment experience of change is not only a vital lesson for trumpet practice but for all of life.
Practicing the trumpet can serve as a form of meditation or mindfulness practice. I didn't realize this as a kid. It has served me well in ways I never could've anticipated.
Try it, you'll like it

Richard Dubin
In Recovery
rdubinlive@gmail.com
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Bethmike
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:58 am    Post subject: Who else gets bummed out by fundamentals Reply with quote

Quote:
Practicing the trumpet can serve as a form of meditation or mindfulness practice. I didn't realize this as a kid. It has served me well in ways I never could've anticipated


+1

Mike
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x9ret
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To save time on fundamentals and still cover them, you can combine exercises or evolve one into another. For example, start with long tones from middle G. Then as you descend slowly start introducing a lip slur, or a trill, or bend the note down a semi-tone. Do some chromatic runs up to a note then lip slur up from there.
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rbtrumpet86
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: Who Else Gets Bummed Out About Fundamentals? And... Reply with quote

HackAmateur wrote:
So, today was Monday. I practiced for 2.5 hours, divided into three sessions. It was me using my orchestral mouthpiece (my plain old Schilke 15) to practice... basic fundamentals. The entire time.


2.5 hours of practice is a bit excessive IMO. I can definitely see how it would become hard to continue on doing fundamentals the whole time. One way I have grown to approach fundamentals is to pick the skills I want to develop and then choose the exercises I want to develop the skills with. That way, I have a greater chance of keeping the goal in mind while I'm working, and my motivation sticks around a little longer.

Another thing I would suggest thinking about is the idea that time doesn't equal progress, but rather progress equals progress. As you're finding out, simply spending a lot of time practicing doesn't equal observable improvement. I would try doing less work and focusing on setting goals that will allow you to see improvement. I think that can help motivation as well!

Hope this is helpful!

Ryan
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am addicted to practicing fundamentals. I have to remind myself to explore more creatively and artistically from time to time because I get locked into obsessive fundamentals-practice focusing on nuts and bolts of playing, and not music.

At this point in my career, that is a good thing for the most part. I spent plenty of time playing trumpet incorrectly but having a musical and creative approach to playing the horn, albeit limited by my trumpet technique - inefficient embouchure, overblowing, lots of tension and bad posture, focusing just on playing by any means necessary rather than correct fundamentals. I've remedied a lot of those things. It's always important to find your balance. My goal is to be able to play with reckless abandon in a musical situation but still have the correct technique/mechanics in place every time I play, because of the muscle memory I've installed into my hard drive from daily fundamentals practice.
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windandsong
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good thread.

Having a regular gig helps a lot.

Fundamentals basically stop my playing falling apart and keep my playing consistent.

Without them I'd be done for!

G
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HackAmateur
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Moment to Moment Reply with quote

rdubin wrote:
No need to push against the "boredom."
Lean into it. Notice the feeling, slow down, pay close attention to the sound. In truth nothing is ever exactly the same. Learning to discern the moment to moment experience of change is not only a vital lesson for trumpet practice but for all of life.
Practicing the trumpet can serve as a form of meditation or mindfulness practice. I didn't realize this as a kid. It has served me well in ways I never could've anticipated.
Try it, you'll like it

Richard Dubin
In Recovery
rdubinlive@gmail.com


I definitely appreciate your reply to my post. I see (at this time) it's the ONLY reply to any post you've ever made. That's really cool. I'm glad my post was something that interested you.

So, as an update, I HAVE varied my fundamentals exercises much more than I did before, so as to avoid a lot of boredom. And of course, I've leaned into the boredom when things got boring.

One major thing that has helped me is focusing on advanced flexibility exercises that I didn't do previously. Those are changing my whole concept of navigating this crazy horn.

Believe it or not, I got my new flexibility exercises from a professional trombonist, not a trumpeter. But, the thing is: brass is brass... and partials are partials. So, I've decided to get private lessons from pro players who don't even play the trumpet, but they do play brass. As crazy as that might sound, it's working for me.

I've incorporated a lot of new flexibility exercises which are more advanced than what I did before.

These exercises are even more exhausting than "high note day", which is range-focused once a week. Clearly, I'm getting a lot out of this advanced flexibility practice, not just mentally, but physically (chops-wise). It's a great thing.

I guess what I want to say is: sometimes, it takes a brass player who doesn't even play the trumpet to teach an old dog new tricks. For me, this has been true!
_________________
As a composer, I will never write "B Sharp", "C Flat", "E Sharp", or "F Flat". I don't care what the key signature is. I'm not an academic; I'm a musician.

-Bach Strad 180 series 37
-Schilke 15
-Bob Reeves s692s w/ custom rim
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HackAmateur
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Joined: 10 Jul 2021
Posts: 80
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Who Else Gets Bummed Out About Fundamentals? And... Reply with quote

rbtrumpet86 wrote:
HackAmateur wrote:
So, today was Monday. I practiced for 2.5 hours, divided into three sessions. It was me using my orchestral mouthpiece (my plain old Schilke 15) to practice... basic fundamentals. The entire time.


2.5 hours of practice is a bit excessive IMO. I can definitely see how it would become hard to continue on doing fundamentals the whole time. One way I have grown to approach fundamentals is to pick the skills I want to develop and then choose the exercises I want to develop the skills with. That way, I have a greater chance of keeping the goal in mind while I'm working, and my motivation sticks around a little longer.

Another thing I would suggest thinking about is the idea that time doesn't equal progress, but rather progress equals progress. As you're finding out, simply spending a lot of time practicing doesn't equal observable improvement. I would try doing less work and focusing on setting goals that will allow you to see improvement. I think that can help motivation as well!

Hope this is helpful!

Ryan


This was indeed very helpful. I stopped doing the exact same fundamentals practice every day.

This doesn't mean I've neglected my fundamentals. It means I've varied them and changed them up on most days.

I still have a once-a-week "fundamentals day" wherein I practice fundamentals-only, yes the boring ones. I do it on my Schilke 15, my orchestral mouthpiece, even though I normally play on my Bob Reeves commercial mouthpiece.

It's my way of making sure I never forget the basics!
_________________
As a composer, I will never write "B Sharp", "C Flat", "E Sharp", or "F Flat". I don't care what the key signature is. I'm not an academic; I'm a musician.

-Bach Strad 180 series 37
-Schilke 15
-Bob Reeves s692s w/ custom rim
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