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Which monette for a Yamaha artist model trumpet ?


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kerouack
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:26 am    Post subject: Which monette for a Yamaha artist model trumpet ? Reply with quote

Hello,

Which monette mouthpiece, Resonance, Unity, or tradition plus, do you think fits better for a Yamaha artist model trumpet ?


Thank you
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monette Unity and Resonance mouthpieces fit fine in the mouthpiece receivers for my Bach and Shires trumpets, and were relatively balanced weight-wise. I'd assume that either of those would fit your Yamaha. You could check with Monette to confirm.

If you meant which would fit better in terms of the overall sound and performance of your instrument, I suspect Monette would tell you that the Unity mouthpieces are the right choice for most players. Again, you could confirm this with Monette and get a recommendation from them regarding which size mouthpiece.

Good luck!
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kerouack
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I mean about sound and performance.
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ek1986
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamahas have a very low pitch center so the Prana/Unity line doesn't work great on them, in my experience.

I'd go with Resonance Classic as their backbores feel pretty similar to traditional backbores like Bach/Yamaha.
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kerouack
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently discovered that bach mpcs dont perfectly fit Yamaha trumpets, and yamaha mpcs dont perfectly bit BAch trumpets. just an example.


With this example, can a monette mpc, or any mpc, pysically perfectly fit both ? Bach and Yamaha horns ?
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kerouack
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On saturday i plan to do a test with a monette silver series no check if it goes inside the same mm than a Yamaha mpc does in my yamaha artist model trumpet.
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kerouack
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you ek1986, is a Monette Resonance worth it in an Yamaha Artist model trumpet, compared to a Yamaha mpc ?
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Voltrane
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kerouac,

I don’t play a Yamaha Artist but a Xeno RGS Gen 1. I use mainly a Resonance B2S3 and it works very well. I also own a Yamaha GP 16 C that also works very well but of course the sound and feeling are different: globally I prefer the sound and feeling of the Monette but sometimes when I need a sound a little more « punchy » I use the GP. I don’t care about the « mm » provided it works for what I play.
Of course it is only my opinion with my RGS !
Regards
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerouack wrote:
On saturday i plan to do a test with a monette silver series no check if it goes inside the same mm than a Yamaha mpc does in my yamaha artist model trumpet.


Personally I honestly feel that a Monette mouthpiece is too different from a Yamaha mouthpiece to compare insertion amount/gap. I have little knowledge of or experience with Monette mouthpieces, but I thought that they had larger throats and more open backbores, but inserted less far into a receiver. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I'm not, a larger gap is probably built into the design to balance the larger throat and more open backbores.

As a cornet example, Denis Wick cornet mouthpieces generally have a larger throat and more open backbore but insert a lot less into the receiver of a cornet. My understanding is that half of the shank of a Denis Wick cornet mouthpiece should insert in to the receiver of a Besson cornet. Newer Denis Wick cornet mouthpieces have larger shanks. I believe that the newer Besson cornets have larger receivers to match the larger shanks, and I've heard of players shaving down the shanks of newer Denis Wick cornet mouthpieces so that only half of the shank inserts into the receiver of an older Besson cornet.

Why is Lou talking about cornet mouthpieces and cornets, because Lou has a feeling that Monette mouthpieces may be similar to Denis Wick cornet mouthpieces in terms of having a larger throat, more open backbore and inserting less far. If so, if you sleeve them to gap like a Yamaha mouthpiece, I imagine that they will slot very poorly and blow like a drainpipe.

Maybe I've confused the issue of talking about sleeving a copy of a Bach 3C for my Yamaha Xeno II. My Bach 3C is pretty similar to a Yamaha 14B4. I've effectively taken a copy of a Bach 3C and sleeved it to insert like a Yamaha 14B4, as this works better for me on my Yamaha Xeno II. I'm sure I've said quite a few times on recent threads, that I would not apply this logic to a Monette, as it is nothing like a Yamaha mouthpiece.

All the best

Lou
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Trumpets:
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Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
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kerouack
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand your point and you can be right.
But a monette silver series is not like a Prana or a Unity, not that open.

But there is an issue still remaining , how can monette , GR or any other create a mpc that perfectly fits two VERY different receivers like the Bach and the Yamaha ?
Is the design for one of them and does not work so well in the other ?
Or Is a compromise between the two ?
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerouack wrote:
I understand your point and you can be right.
But a monette silver series is not like a Prana or a Unity, not that open.

Thanks very much for the clarification kerouack. Like I said lol, I don't know much about Monette mouthpieces.

But there is an issue still remaining , how can monette , GR or any other create a mpc that perfectly fits two VERY different receivers like the Bach and the Yamaha ?
Is the design for one of them and does not work so well in the other ?
Or Is a compromise between the two ?

First of all, although you say different receivers like Bach and Yamaha, obviously there are many more makes of trumpets that just these two. Across the whole range of trumpet makes, Bach and Yamaha receivers may be more similar to each other, than Bach and something else, or Yamaha and something else. In my very limited experience, it appears to me that a fair number of makers (but quite likely not Monette) make their shank dimensions more like Bach, Yamaha mouthpieces insert around 1mm more than Bach mouthpieces, and Kanstul and Schilke mouthpieces insert a little further still. To be slightly more specific, I believe that Reeves and Warburton insert pretty much like Bach, and that Curry insert a little further than Bach, maybe like Yamaha or between Bach and Yamaha. I've only measured Bach, Curry and Yamaha mouthpieces, so I can't be any more specific.

There is a standard taper for mouthpieces, and enough of a standard for the fit of trumpet mouthpieces and trumpet receivers, that most trumpet mouthpieces insert reasonably well in most trumpet receivers, but I don't think that there is an absolute universal standard for mouthpieces and receivers, to the extent that you can say that every trumpet mouthpiece has such and such shank end diameter, such and such shank end thickness, such and such shank length, every mouthpiece receiver has such a dimension from the top of the leadpipe to the top of the mouthpiece receiver etc.

Take care and best wishes

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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ek1986
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerouack wrote:
Thank you ek1986, is a Monette Resonance worth it in an Yamaha Artist model trumpet, compared to a Yamaha mpc ?


Sorry for the delay. Yes, I believe a Monette Resonance Classic is a good mouthpiece on Yamaha Artist Trumpets. I own and use both (Monette Resonance Classsic and Yamaha mouthpieces) depending on the situation.

The biggest difference between Monette Resonance Classic mouthpieces VS Yamaha mouthpieces is that Monette will allow you to sit lower in the slot of each note, without going flat and achieving a nice resonance without sacrificing intonation or color. It can take a lot of practice to understand how the Monette works, but if played correctly it can be an amazing piece of equipment.

Yamaha mouthpieces work great on Yamaha Artist horns as well but personally, I have to be careful to not play too low on the slot of each note otherwise the intonation on some notes isn't great. For example, D (4th line) on C trumpet, open E on fourth space, or even middle A flat.

Both mouthpieces (Monette Resonance Classic and Yamaha) work well on Yamaha Artist Trumpets and the functionality is at the end very similar: I believe they both aim to feel very even and with the best intonation possible according to its own style of blow (where exactly in the slot each of these two brands play).

I hope this helps!

EK
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kerouack
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Lou, I agree with you, I just say " Bach vs Yamaha" cause is easier to understand and that are the most famous brands in my country.

Thank you ek1986, and what about the Monette Unity ? Monette says that is specially designed for "non monette instruments ".


And what about the Tradition plus ? is more similar to the resonance ? or to the PRANA resonance ?

Sorry to ask so many questions but that are expensive and imposible to try in my country.
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ek1986
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerouack wrote:
Thank you Lou, I agree with you, I just say " Bach vs Yamaha" cause is easier to understand and that are the most famous brands in my country.

Thank you ek1986, and what about the Monette Unity ? Monette says that is specially designed for "non monette instruments ".


And what about the Tradition plus ? is more similar to the resonance ? or to the PRANA resonance ?

Sorry to ask so many questions but that are expensive and imposible to try in my country.


In my experience, Bach mouthpieces have a nice sound on Yamaha Artist trumpets, they play with a nice compact tone which helps me manipulate color even better than on Yamaha mouthpieces. However, personally, the biggest deal breaker of using Bach mpcs on a Yamaha Artist trumpets is the stuffy upper register, it can be hard to access and the color isn't great unless you get lucky with a good Bach mouthpiece or modify the crap out the throat/backbore/gap. Yamaha mouhtpieces don't play with the same color as Bach mouthpieces but the evenness makes up for it, that's why I prefer them on Yamaha Artist Trumpets.

Monette Unity is great and probably the best mouthpiece Monette makes. It works better with some trumpet brands than others. I believe Monette Unity works well with Bach trumpets but not so well with Yamaha trumpets. This includes the Unity Retro line, although the original blank Unity feels more stable and locked in. They are all great mouthpieces if you actually decide to give it a chance and learn how to play them.

Unity is like a newer generation of Prana. The biggest innovation is the "-7" rims and their "DM" rims. These rims feel nicer and these pieces play with a slightly different sound than Prana and more ease. Prana and Unity play with a bigger core of sound than the other mouthpieces Monette makes. When a good player acclimates properly to these mouthpieces, they do have the potential to produce more sound, resonance and projection with a lot more ease.

Monette Tradition plus is discontinued (it was replaced by Unity Retro) and it only comes in B-flat lenght. Tradition plus is like a "Prana Retro" so yes, it plays more like a Prana than a Classic. I actually like this mouthpiece a lot too, but only on B-flat trumpet. The rims are not like Unity, they are more like Resonance/STC (less comfortable). It's a great piece of equipment but quite limited because it only comes in one length. Personally, I believe one of the biggest benefits of Monette is being able to explore the different lengths so one single approach can be used for all keys of trumpets.

Resonance Classic plays with a more "traditional" sound (like a Bach or a Yamaha mouthpiece). The core of the sound isn't potentially huge like Prana or Unity but still a very good sound. It still takes some time to acclimate mainly because you do need to sit low on each note and this can result in a different approach overall.

If you have never played a Monette mouthpiece I'd recommend a Resonance Classic, they play with a more compact sound than Prana/Unity. In other words, they play with a sound that is more similar to Bach/Yamaha. Also, the acclimation can be easier on Resonance Classic than Prana/Unity as their throats/backbores aren't so open.

I hope this is helpful!

EK


Last edited by ek1986 on Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:08 am; edited 2 times in total
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerouack wrote:
Thank you Lou, I agree with you, I just say " Bach vs Yamaha" cause is easier to understand and that are the most famous brands in my country.

I fully understand kerouack, and thanks very much for the clarification.

All the best

Lou


Thank you ek1986, and what about the Monette Unity ? Monette says that is specially designed for "non monette instruments ".

And what about the Tradition plus ? is more similar to the resonance ? or to the PRANA resonance ?

Sorry to ask so many questions but that are expensive and imposible to try in my country.

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ek1986 wrote:
kerouack wrote:
Thank you Lou, I agree with you, I just say " Bach vs Yamaha" cause is easier to understand and that are the most famous brands in my country.

Thank you ek1986, and what about the Monette Unity ? Monette says that is specially designed for "non monette instruments ".


And what about the Tradition plus ? is more similar to the resonance ? or to the PRANA resonance ?

Sorry to ask so many questions but that are expensive and imposible to try in my country.


In my experience, Bach mouthpieces have a nice sound on Yamaha Artist trumpets, they play with a nice compact tone which helps me manipulate color even better than on Yamaha mouthpieces. However, personally, the biggest deal breaker of using Bach mpcs on a Yamaha Artist trumpets is the stuffy upper register,

This is exactly what I found when I tried a Bach 3C on a Yamaha Xeno II.

it can be hard to access and the color isn't great unless you get lucky with a good Bach mouthpiece or modify the crap out the throat/backbore. Yamaha mouhtpieces don't play with the same color as Bach mouthpieces but the evenness makes up for it, that's why I prefer them on Yamaha Artist Trumpets.

Have you tried having a Bach mouthpiece cut for sleeves, and reducing the mouthpiece gap? I've found that most Bach mouthpieces insert around 1mm less than regular Yamaha mouthpieces. In my experience, increasing the insertion amount of a Bach mouthpiece by this around 1mm opens up the upper register of a Yamaha Xeno II nicely.

All the best

Lou


Monette Unity is great and probably the best mouthpiece Monette makes. It works better with some trumpet brands than others. I believe Monette Unity works well with Bach trumpets but not so well with Yamaha trumpets. This includes the Unity Retro line, although the original blank Unity feels more stable and locked in. They are all great mouthpieces if you actually decide to give it a chance and learn how to play them.

Unity is like a newer generation of Prana. The biggest innovation is the "-7" rims and their "DM" rims. These rims feel nicer and these pieces play with a slightly different sound than Prana and more ease. Prana and Unity play with a bigger core of sound than the other mouthpieces Monette makes. When a good player acclimates properly to these mouthpieces, they do have the potential to produce more sound, resonance and projection with a lot more ease.

Monette Tradition plus is discontinued (it was replaced by Unity Retro) and it only comes in B-flat lenght. Tradition plus is like a "Prana Retro" so yes, it plays more like a Prana than a Classic. I actually like this mouthpiece a lot too, but only on B-flat trumpet. The rims are not like Unity, they are more like Resonance/STC (less comfortable). It's a great piece of equipment but quite limited because it only comes in one length. Personally, I believe one of the biggest benefits of Monette is being able to explore the different lengths so one single approach can be used for all keys of trumpets.

Resonance Classic plays with a more "traditional" sound (like a Bach or a Yamaha mouthpiece). The core of the sound isn't potentially huge like Prana or Unity but still a very good sound. It still takes some time to acclimate mainly because you do need to sit low on each note and this can result in a different approach overall.

If you have never played a Monette mouthpiece I'd recommend a Resonance Classic, they play with a more compact sound than Prana/Unity. In other words, they play with a sound that is more similar to Bach/Yamaha. Also, the acclimation can be easier on Resonance Classic than Prana/Unity as their throats/backbores aren't so open.

I hope this is helpful!

EK

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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kerouack
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,
Thank you very much ek1986 for your very interesting comments.

Last weekend I tried a Monette silver series.
Problem is, I could not tried it for a long time so I would need to try it again.

My first impression was:

- It is true that the low C is tuned different than usual mpcs. It is tuned clearly lower.
- The timbre is different, is like the mpc wants to " scream ". In the sense that it seems it is easier play loud with it, to the end of the auditorium, easier than with Yamaha mpcs, but at the same time it is more difficult to play soft. It seems to me, it has a different compromise in its design. Playing it I could imagine myself in one of that monette videos at the monette shop playing high and super loud.
- It goes 25mm inside the receiver of my yamaha artist model ny.
- It does not feel stuffy in the upper register.


According to what ek1986 says, it looks to me that the " correction " than PRANA and UNITY do in an usual trumpets, is not needed in an Artist model.
Also it looks to me than UNITY are more designed for the " American standard ", let say "BACH".


I have an AR mouthpiece, it goes even less, 24mm into the receiver.

If PRANA and UNITY are not so good for my Yamaha, I am not sure if the price of another Monette mpc is worth it, for me and my trumpet.

I don't know if the different tunning of a Monette mpc is needed in my yamaha artist model.
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ek1986
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:

In my experience, Bach mouthpieces have a nice sound on Yamaha Artist trumpets, they play with a nice compact tone which helps me manipulate color even better than on Yamaha mouthpieces. However, personally, the biggest deal breaker of using Bach mpcs on a Yamaha Artist trumpets is the stuffy upper register,

This is exactly what I found when I tried a Bach 3C on a Yamaha Xeno II.

it can be hard to access and the color isn't great unless you get lucky with a good Bach mouthpiece or modify the crap out the throat/backbore. Yamaha mouhtpieces don't play with the same color as Bach mouthpieces but the evenness makes up for it, that's why I prefer them on Yamaha Artist Trumpets.

Have you tried having a Bach mouthpiece cut for sleeves, and reducing the mouthpiece gap? I've found that most Bach mouthpieces insert around 1mm less than regular Yamaha mouthpieces. In my experience, increasing the insertion amount of a Bach mouthpiece by this around 1mm opens up the upper register of a Yamaha Xeno II nicely.

All the best

Lou


Thank you. Yes, my comment of modifying the mouthpiece should have included the "cut for sleeves", which I did try at some point to see what that was all about. I have edited my original text.

Best,

EK
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ek1986 wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:

In my experience, Bach mouthpieces have a nice sound on Yamaha Artist trumpets, they play with a nice compact tone which helps me manipulate color even better than on Yamaha mouthpieces. However, personally, the biggest deal breaker of using Bach mpcs on a Yamaha Artist trumpets is the stuffy upper register,

This is exactly what I found when I tried a Bach 3C on a Yamaha Xeno II.

it can be hard to access and the color isn't great unless you get lucky with a good Bach mouthpiece or modify the crap out the throat/backbore. Yamaha mouhtpieces don't play with the same color as Bach mouthpieces but the evenness makes up for it, that's why I prefer them on Yamaha Artist Trumpets.

Have you tried having a Bach mouthpiece cut for sleeves, and reducing the mouthpiece gap? I've found that most Bach mouthpieces insert around 1mm less than regular Yamaha mouthpieces. In my experience, increasing the insertion amount of a Bach mouthpiece by this around 1mm opens up the upper register of a Yamaha Xeno II nicely.

All the best

Lou


Thank you. Yes, my comment of modifying the mouthpiece should have included the "cut for sleeves", which I did try at some point to see what that was all about. I have edited my original text.

Best,

EK


You are very welcome. I'll go back and read your edit.

Take care and best wishes

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ek1986 wrote:

In my experience, Bach mouthpieces have a nice sound on Yamaha Artist trumpets, they play with a nice compact tone which helps me manipulate color even better than on Yamaha mouthpieces. However, personally, the biggest deal breaker of using Bach mpcs on a Yamaha Artist trumpets is the stuffy upper register, it can be hard to access and the color isn't great unless you get lucky with a good Bach mouthpiece or modify the crap out the throat/backbore/gap. Yamaha mouhtpieces don't play with the same color as Bach mouthpieces but the evenness makes up for it, that's why I prefer them on Yamaha Artist Trumpets.


I'd be interested if you don't mind sharing, the specifics of the modifications you've made to Bach mouthpieces to help them to play well for you on Yamaha Artist trumpets.

Many thanks

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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