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Finding the aperature again :)



 
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LowNoteSavant
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Joined: 22 Jul 2021
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:36 am    Post subject: Finding the aperature again :) Reply with quote

It's amazing how simple it is to conceptualize a good opening, but man I'm just having trouble hitting it again.

I haven't played since grade school. Before I quit playing, I remember that getting the upper register was actually easy because I had developed the proper technique to increase the speed of the air stream to get higher.

Now my lips are crackling and I hear separations around the mouth. It's going to be a bumpy ride getting back. Does the "aha" moment make you happy or what? I can't wait to find it again.

Just venting to say, we all have been there.
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome back to trumpet playing! If at all possible, take some lessons. Your teacher can help you get off to a good start with your embouchure, help you put together a practice routine that works for you, etc. Good luck!
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abontrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't get too fatigued/keep it fresh. Short spurts of playing (1 minute). Slowly your chops will find it's place again. Don't think about it and just try to make pretty sounds.
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chrisf3000
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The answer lies in making a good sound. If you make the nicest sound you can make, then the aperture will be right. Thinking about the physical will tie you up in knots. Are tennis players thinking about exactly which angle their arms come down on at a specific velocity? Not necessarily - they are likely picking a spot and hitting to it. Are basketball players thinking which wrist angle they are producing when shooting a free throw? They are focused on the net.

Worrying too much about tongue angles, embouchure tightness or looseness, or aperture sizes commonly produces "Paralysis by Analysis". The easier way is to produce a beautiful sound. Do that, and you are likely producing an aperture that is already the right size and balanced with your air.
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LowNoteSavant
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys...when I quit playing before high school I had good range and chops. I was always angry because I was playing lower register 3rd chair stuff.

And I learned later that all the high note guys just had brighter shallow cups...and my band teacher was a recovering alcoholic.

hahahah but he got our band to beat out private school kids in competition.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO trying to "conceptualize a good opening" is misguided and pointless. The aperture happens, you can't see it or meaningfully try to gauge it.

There's a whole bunch of other things to focus on - if the sound is right, the aperture is right.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert P wrote:
IMO trying to "conceptualize a good opening" is misguided and pointless. The aperture happens, you can't see it or meaningfully try to gauge it.

... if the sound is right, the aperture is right.

-----------------------------------------------------------
I think the key element here is to recognize 'when' the sound is right, and how the aperture (and entire embouchure) feels at that time - remembering and duplicating that feeling (all the little details) can help to consistently obtain the desired sound.
edit: also include the breathing process, process, control, etc.

I suggest listening to Reinhardt's explanation about 'Sensation Theory' that is mentioned here -
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1632112#1632112
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Last edited by JayKosta on Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert P wrote:
IMO trying to "conceptualize a good opening" is misguided and pointless. The aperture happens, you can't see it or meaningfully try to gauge it.

There's a whole bunch of other things to focus on - if the sound is right, the aperture is right.

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jadickson
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two things:

1. I agree that "conceptualizing the opening" is hazardous. Wrong approach, in my experience / opinion. Think about how you want to sound and play, and trust that your body will make the right adjustments over time. That is how you learned how to talk and everything else, that is how our brains work.

2. The best exercise I have found for embouchure is playing a 2nd line G starting PP, crescendo very slowly up to MF, then back down to PP. Keep the tone and intonation steady. Rinse and repeat for five minutes. Once you can do that, you can do the same thing but on different notes, go up and own chromatically. >> Rest as much as you play <<. You will be bad at this in the beginning, but after a few days you will be good.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jadickson wrote:
Two things:

1. I agree that "conceptualizing the opening" is hazardous. Wrong approach, in my experience / opinion. Think about how you want to sound and play, and trust that your body will make the right adjustments over time. That is how you learned how to talk and everything else, that is how our brains work.

2. The best exercise I have found for embouchure is playing a 2nd line G starting PP, crescendo very slowly up to MF, then back down to PP. Keep the tone and intonation steady. Rinse and repeat for five minutes. Once you can do that, you can do the same thing but on different notes, go up and own chromatically. >> Rest as much as you play <<. You will be bad at this in the beginning, but after a few days you will be good.


Schlossberg #6
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LowNoteSavant wrote:
Thanks guys...when I quit playing before high school I had good range and chops. I was always angry because I was playing lower register 3rd chair stuff.

And I learned later that all the high note guys just had brighter shallow cups...and my band teacher was a recovering alcoholic.

hahahah but he got our band to beat out private school kids in competition.


I’ve sort of been staying out of this type of discussion, but…..

Given that I have no idea whatsoever of your level of skill in high school, one of two things might have been the reason your director had you on third parts: either he needed someone with some ability on the lower parts, or you didn’t have the ability, other than range, to be on first part.

Also, the “high note guys” may in fact have been using shallower commercial mouthpieces, but it sounds as if you’re implying that they had range because of that. NO mouthpiece enables you to do anything that you can’t otherwise do. IMO, the concept of “cheater mouthpieces” is a myth. I use a commercial mouthpiece because it’s helpful for the type of playing I do, for a number of reasons, but it certainly does not give me range that I would not otherwise have.

Off topic a bit, but I really don’t see the relevance of stating that your director was a recovering alcoholic, whether that’s true or is not.

Brad
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Last edited by Brad361 on Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:03 pm; edited 5 times in total
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad361 wrote:
... might have been the reason your director had you on third parts: either he needed someone with some ability on the lower parts, ...

---------------------------------
My community band director (former school BD) mentioned that he enjoyed hearing the 3rd trpt parts coming thru. Those parts often contain interesting counter-melodies and ornamentation.

Also, the 3rd trpt parts often supplement some of the French horn parts, and that can be very helpful when the 3rd trpt player does a good job.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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SMrtn
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trouble finding your aperature eh?

I have the same problem after a few aperitifs
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Bethmike
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:26 pm    Post subject: Finding Aperture again Reply with quote

If I am having an off day I stop and do this:

Do 1 or 2 minutes of long tones with a weird twist.
- Done quietly
- In staff
- Making sure I am not rolling in or out differently that my usual set
- AND I try to open my jaw as wide as I can and still make a nice sound

It feels like I've opened my jaw an inch, it's surely a fraction of an inch. I will exaggerate the movement for a few seconds, and then settle in to a normal set. It seems to get my jaw in position, and get my corners operating correctly.

Maybe it's weird, but it works for me.
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Billy B
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: Finding Aperture again Reply with quote

Bethmike wrote:
If I am having an off day I stop and do this:

Do 1 or 2 minutes of long tones with a weird twist.
- Done quietly
- In staff
- Making sure I am not rolling in or out differently that my usual set
- AND I try to open my jaw as wide as I can and still make a nice sound

It feels like I've opened my jaw an inch, it's surely a fraction of an inch. I will exaggerate the movement for a few seconds, and then settle in to a normal set. It seems to get my jaw in position, and get my corners operating correctly.

Maybe it's weird, but it works for me.


Pitch bending
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is essentially zero we can do Low Note to help you based on your posts. Things are not working as you want? THAT is the call to practice. How you go about this is your cal. Most prudent people will get assistance in a meaningful way: a private teacher and reply on freebies from an Internet forum.

The only intelligent thing we can do is let you know what works for us, and that may or may not help. Bet on it not helping.

Go get a good teacher. Face to face or online, but do that, put your $$$ where you want your music to be and enjoy the ride…

Cheers

Andy
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Del wrote:
There is essentially zero we can do Low Note to help you based on your posts. Things are not working as you want? THAT is the call to practice. ...

-------------------------------
Practice and patience is the key, along with making sure you are using the correct techniques, etc. - a good teacher can quickly identify problems that will hamper your improvement.

Earlier you said -

"Before I quit playing, I remember that getting the upper register was actually easy because I had developed the proper technique to increase the speed of the air stream to get higher."

'Air speed' (usually regulated by internal air pressure and lip resistance to air flow) is certainly an often mentioned part of technique, but there's a lot more involved that you might have not 'gotten'.
A common problem being excessive use of high mouthpiece pressure to create the resistance and to tension the lips. Excessive pressure seems to work for a while, but then it can cause pain and injury, or physically STOPS the lips from being able to vibrate.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Del wrote:
There is essentially zero we can do Low Note to help you based on your posts. Things are not working as you want? THAT is the call to practice. How you go about this is your cal. …..

Andy


This. ☝️

Brad
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"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
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