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The perfect trumpet



 
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Trumpetstud
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:50 pm    Post subject: The perfect trumpet Reply with quote

Do you think there is the perfect trumpet for every player? My teacher talked about a C trumpet he played that was THE perfect trumpet for him. It’s a Blackburn I think he said. How do you know when u find that. I’ve only owned 1 trumpet. I got it when I was a kid. I started out with a student trumpet from school and then my parents bought me a Bach Strad model 37 ML. I’ve never known anything else. BUT is There really the perfect trumpet out there?

Thoughts?
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the question would be better posed as “perfect trumpets”.

Your example mentions a C trumpet, which in my understanding have a brighter tonal palette than a Bb. So what happens when the player needs a Bb to blend in the section? Or a G, A or Bb pic?

But to answer your question, the answer is yes. And no.

It depends on the player. Think Doc Severinson. He has created or participated in creating multiple custom horns to fit his idea of the “perfect trumpet”. While the perfect fit for him might be out there, he hasn’t found it.

Also, over the years I have seen posts on here by people who have found their perfect trumpet and sing it’s praises in every thread discussing trumpets. Only to find another more perfect and repeat.

Some find the best horn for them and then spend their time perfecting their facility on the instrument.
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khedger
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.
Trumpets vary in many aspects which causes the way they play and feel to vary between different instruments. Players are also physically different and have different requirements for a 'perfect' horn.
So, a perfect horn? No. A perfect horn for a particular player? Maybe.

keith
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JoeLoeffler
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The short answer is no. (But that is a question regarding a pretty generalized statement….)

If the question is “can you have a trumpet that will be able to do absolutely everything you will need?” A longer answer is: There is no trumpet that will do all jobs equally. Every trumpet is a series of compromises. I suppose the answer is a very skeptical “Possibly”. The narrower the scope of what you need to do as a player, the more this is a possibility. I know some specialized jazz or commercial players that could possibly get by with one instrument to cover the things that they need to do professionally (although they would also need at least a flugelhorn.) Classical (orchestral) players have a much wider set of job requirements and require a number of instruments two fill their needs. (Various keyed instruments, cornets, flugelhorns, rotary instruments, Piccolo trumpet, instruments for large orchestras, chamber instruments…) If you are a hobbyist or a student playing mostly in a concert band with a bit of other stuff, you would probably be able to have one horn for all. (But for a hobbyist, where is the fun in that?…

There are some instruments that play to a particular player’s strengths and weaknesses, but generally truly great trumpets are great for nearly any good player. The complicated issue is being a knowledgeable enough player to know what is a truly good/great trumpet and what is less than (and then what will be useful to you).

If the question is: “Can you find a trumpet that you really enjoy playing that allows you to sound your best and utilize it for most things?” - the answer is “Sure.” (But really comes down to what I mentioned in the last paragraph.)
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read the question as: 'is there a perfect match for me out there' and so I'm gonna answer that one.

There's probably a 'perfect match trumpet' for every player out there somewhere...but it's gonna be a different one for each of them (some even have multiple ).

Apart from the physical aspects, there's also the question of what you want from your perfect trumpet. What do you want to use it for? How do you want it to sound? What's your budget? And so on. Only you can really answer that question. It also involves trying other instruments, which in itself can be fun to do. And who knows? Maybe you'll end up discovering your current instrument was exactly right for you all along. But given how you posed the question, I'm kinda getting the feeling that you're having some doubts yourself.

The instruments I currently play are the ones I just know are 'the perfect match' for me. I still have my student trumpet (which in hindsight I've always known was a mismatch) and a very cool cornet that I'm reluctant to let go yet secretly know is just not right for me. As for the 'how do you know', I'm not entirely sure. I could write pages on why I like the instruments I play, but ultimately all I can say is that you just know it when you play it.

The perfect trumpet in the sense that it can literally do anything better than any other (even including different keyed instruments and cornets/flugelhorns) for every player though: I agree with the other posters that such an instrument doesn't exist.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@hibidogrulez: I think the reluctance to let go is part of the issue. I really like trumpets and also constantly think there should be a better one out there but on the other hand I don’t like to have a load of stuff lie around the house. So after hesitating quite a bit I sold my student YFH231S flugel a few years ago.

Why was I reluctant to sell it? Because it was a present from my parents and I had played it in my high school big band for a few years. So - purely emotional and no technical reasons. The thing is: after I sold it and bought the NOS K&H in the signature I realized that memories and experience will not go away simply because you sold a horn (that does not work for you, that you have „outgrown“, that wasn’t great in the first place, …). I am much happier with the current horn and really don’t need two flugels.

To answer to OPs question: there may be a perfect trumpet for you, it may just be hard to find it. There may even be multiple perfect ones. My Bach is not perfect, far from it, but I have been playing it for almost 30 years and know its quirks just in my sleep. Are there better trumpets out there, mainly with a more even scale and better intonation? Sure! Would I love to have one of them? SURE! But in reality my go to horn at the moment is the bass trumpet and my near-perfect Martin Schmidt. So all funds that become available will be directed at purchasing a near-perfect bass trumpet (somewhere, over the rainbow …)
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brassnose wrote:
@hibidogrulez: I think the reluctance to let go is part of the issue. I really like trumpets and also constantly think there should be a better one out there but on the other hand I don’t like to have a load of stuff lie around the house.

Yeah, probably. I still have the first trumpet that my parents got me, and for many years I've tried to make it work somehow, to give it a purpose. My current horn's just better than it in every single way (other than maybe as a beater) but to accept that that fact took a while. It's got a special spot on the living room wall now though.

The same goes for my cornet...it's such a cool instrument that I want to keep, but I find that the music I would use it for, I prefer my trumpet and as such it's in danger of becoming unused.

Which is the downside of finding your 'perfect horn' really. There's tons of cool instruments out there that you'll want but end up never playing, because you've already got the (in your mind) greatest instrument in history ever.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are perfect trumpets - you know it when you pick it up and play on it. (and when it happens, buy it. Don't let it out of your hands)

Like any relationship, the fit will be unique to you. Also, like some relationships, the bond may fade over time - not because the horn changes, but the player does, or the circumstances of the player's life (what the horn is primarily used for) change over time. You may find the perfect match for gigging, and 20 years later find yourself doing all church work - at which point the perfect horn will likely be different.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had to think back on my years of playing and pick the one trumpet I had that I did my best playing on, and the one that I was able to use in every ensemble I was in:

Bach 37

With that said, I think it was less a matter of it being a perfect trumpet as it was the fact that I spent 6-8 hours a day with it in my hands, so I was very very used to how it played. I did so much playing on it that dealing with any quirks or intonation issues the horn may have had was automatic.

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a perfect trumpet.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d support the „buy it“ aspect just brought up by Ron Berndt. I once did not buy a used Del Quadro, even though I kept going back to it the entire day I spent in the shop selling it. Dumbest move I made in my trumpet life. So when I happened upon the Martin Schmidt in the signature a few years later I did not repeat the same mistake

I also agree with trickg in that this is what I do for my big band and funk playing: pick up my trusty old Bach. I’ve played it for so long that I know the ins and outs but in the community orchestra it will bury everyone else except my trumpet colleague (who happened to be on a Bach 43 as well and then switched to a Scherzer rotary as to not kill the orchestra by himself).

So, I’d say there are horns that you get used to (and I really like my Bach) and will do everything you need them to and then there are near-perfect horns that often happen to be serendipity finds. If this happens, follow Ron’s advice
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kramergfy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There’s a reason the Bach 37 became the starting point. It’s the middle of the road choice. You can use it in any scenario, figure out where your talents and musical interests are, and then either keep it and get a specialized mouthpiece that works with it, or get a more specialized instrument. Yes it has quirks, every horn is a design compromise. But the standard weight, ML 37 bell and 25 lead pipe is the standard. Even better if it’s a late Mt. Vernon, Early Elkhart, or 19037. The best part about them is they are affordable to anyone, and you won’t have a tough time blending with other trumpets.
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Jaw04
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no perfect trumpet or mouthpiece, everything is a trade-off or compromise. Even if the perfect trumpet was invented with perfect intonation and exact evenness of sound, it still would likely lack the character of other trumpets. A human playing a beat up old instrument is still more appealing to hear than a perfectly engineered MIDI track.

Some people post on here give enthusiastic endorsements of equipment but there is no trumpet that can "create any sound you imagine" like they would suggest. The spectrum of trumpets, cornet, and flugelhorn sounds is really broad and there is a reason there is such variety.
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Yamahaguy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoeLoeffler wrote:
There is no trumpet that will do all jobs equally. Every trumpet is a series of compromises. I suppose the answer is a very skeptical “Possibly”
I keep telling myself this every time I buy another horn! Sure is fun though...
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamahaguy wrote:
JoeLoeffler wrote:
There is no trumpet that will do all jobs equally. Every trumpet is a series of compromises. I suppose the answer is a very skeptical “Possibly”
I keep telling myself this every time I buy another horn! Sure is fun though...

I guess in your case the perfect horn is the next one...

My peak earning years are behind me so I will need to make due with the one(s) I have.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's only fair to add to my statement above that I don't necessarily think that it was the Bach 37 specifically that made it the horn that I played the best on. I think if it had been a Schilke S32, a Bach 43 or 72, or perhaps a Yamaha 6335 such as the one I was initially issued when I got to my first Army band assignment, (I ended up shelving it to play my personal Bach 37 - I was just used to the feel of the Bach because by then I'd been on it for 4 years) then that's probably the horn I would have done my best playing on.

I think what really defined it is that by the time I hit my stride as a player in those first couple of years* I was spending so much time on that particular trumpet, that I found a way to make it work for whatever I needed to be with just the one mouthpiece I used for everything at that time too - a Marcinkiewicz #2...which oddly enough is the mouthpiece I'm currently using, so...

Right now I'm on a Shires Model B, and I really really like this trumpet. Do I play it as well as I played my Bach 37? No. But I'm also not putting in 6-8 hours a day with it either. It is by far the superior trumpet between it and my old Bach 37.

Something else to note, I made a point to try to return to the Bach 37 a few years back. I couldn't make it work - I think my sound concept has shifted to the point where the more compact sound of the 37 bell doesn't mesh well with the sound concept in my head, so it never felt quite right. I don't have that issue with this Shires Model B - it's a bigger, broader sound, and very easy to color.

* disclaimer: during that point in my time as an Army trumpet player, I was surrounded by older, more experienced, excellent players - there were times on ceremonies that I split the 1st part with another player, but in concert band I invariably played either 2nd cornet, or 3rd Cornet/1st Trumpet, splitting the trumpet duties with another player who played the 3rd cornet-1st/2nd Trumpet book with me. In the big band, I found a niche playing 3rd and 4th book because I didn't have the range to play lead, and I couldn't solo.
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blbaumgarn
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:23 pm    Post subject: The perfect trumpet Reply with quote

The only way to determine, for you, if a trumpet is perfect is to play the thing. When you do that you have initiated a union between you and the instrument. I personally believe that we can experience this feeling of perfection at times and sometimes often when we are prepared and we have a special instrument to use. That is just MHO. I am for people having this experience many times in their life if possible. The other day I watched "A River Runs Through It" again and loved the scene where the father and sons go fly fishing along the river. At one point the father and the older son are watching and they witness the other son catch a massive 8-9 lb. trout. The writer of the story said about it that, "I knew what I saw that day was "perfection." It was the man, the rod, the reel, the lure, the presentation, the place and time, everything. I believe that this is how it happens for a musician. I don't know if I believe there are perfect trumpets, but I believe in perfect unions and perfect performances. Thanks.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ trickg: I agree with the correlation between practice and “best” horn. I never played professionally but did play in a big band that was about half pros and half amateurs. Plus I was the only non pro in the trumpet section. Made it up to 2nd trumpet (w/o the solo parts in most cases) and the reason this worked and I could maintain this was simply that I didn’t worry about “is this the perfect horn for the job, blah blah” but rather just took the only horn I had (the Bach in the signature) and put in a lot of practice.

Having said that, the Martin Schmidt rotary for me plays even better because it DOES have better intonation, speaks more easily, and I really like the rotary valves. It is a lightweight horn vs. my Bach, which is on the heavy-ish side, so I have two great and contrasting horns. I like both.
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spitvalve
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I went to audition for my cruise gig years ago the lead player in the band was playing the same student model Reynolds he had started on in 7th grade. He didn't even know what kind of mouthpiece it had but he played beautifully. This guy had no equipment obsession like the rest of us and I found myself envying him because I realized what a total trumpet gearhead I was. Once you cross that line there's no hope for recovery, as the dozen or so horns I've gone through in my career would attest.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest I only became a gearhead after I started again in 2013/14. Before, I had the Bach, a student flugel and my old Blessing student trumpet. That was all I needed for 35 or so years.

As a buddy from an old band put it: now we’re old enough to have the money to buy all the trumpets we didn’t even know existed in the 1980s … it is part of the fun, though.
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