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Phaeton Bb, who, what, where??



 
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ECLtmpt2
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:50 pm    Post subject: Phaeton Bb, who, what, where?? Reply with quote

I acquired a Phaeton Bb trumpet a number of years ago. It's a 3rd horn & I've never really taken it seriously because I don't know anything about it. It plays well enough and is fairly dark and focused IMO. Searches have not given me any of the info I'd really like to know.

There is no model number/name on the horn or case. It is in a brushed lacquer finish. I'd call it a Monette wanna-be? (just my assessment)...but I didn't give that kind of $$$ for it!

What can anyone tell me about who actually makes them and what kind of reputation do they have?
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd seen comments on TH that they're made by Carolbrass. I've looked at some of their flugelhorns, because they can sometimes be found cheaper on the 2nd hand market. If it's made by Carolbrass, it should be pretty good quality.

Their website is somewhat confusing, listing Barrington, IL as the main address and quoting someone who says they are "made mostly in America." Maybe you could write to the contact address for info on your trumpet and they'd give you info on the model and background.
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ECLtmpt2
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote:
--snip-- If it's made by Carolbrass, it should be pretty good quality.

Their website is somewhat confusing, listing Barrington, IL as the main address and quoting someone who says they are "made mostly in America." Maybe you could write to the contact address for info on your trumpet and they'd give you info on the model and background.


That's about all I've been able to find out about the horn. The 'mostly' made in America statement is, for lack of a better term, interesting. I was wondering if anyone here on TH owns one, has owned one, or knows any more about the Phaeton brand. I have read it's likely from the Carolbrass lineage but nothing for sure.

I'm not trying to sell the horn, it's a keeper for what I have into it. It makes a good horn for what I'd call a risky situation, ie; somewhere I'd not want to use my Bach Strad or Schilke.
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Subtropical and Subpar
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While looking at flugelhorns last year I believe I ran across something saying that Phaetons were assembled in the US with parts made overseas, possibly by Carolbrass. I don't know how much truth there is in this, but it's what I saw.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://phaetontrumpet.com/
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Tuningbell
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phaeton Trumpet is a division of F. E. Olds and Son, Inc.
Its all over the website.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuningbell wrote:
Phaeton Trumpet is a division of F. E. Olds and Son, Inc.
Its all over the website.

Which really means nothing. The "FE Olds" name has been owned by various entities since the FE Olds company closed at the end of the 1970's. It's been a stencil brand ever since.

I had a bunch of "FE Olds" student instruments in my urban elementary school's inventory. They were made by various companies all over the world, China, Taiwan, some of the student trumpets were probably Blessing made stencils.

Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
While looking at flugelhorns last year I believe I ran across something saying that Phaetons were assembled in the US with parts made overseas, possibly by Carolbrass. I don't know how much truth there is in this, but it's what I saw.

That's the reality of most of these trumpet "makers" that don't actually make anything. Phaeton, Cannonball, I'm sure there are other, but I'm drawing a blank at the moment.

This isn't a knock or a criticism, it just is what it is.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting. The FE Olds webpage doesn't list any history after the mid-70s and their trumpet line looks pretty generic.

Phaeton almost certainly is CB. Look at the Carolbrass Legend line and it looks similar--heavy caps, bracing, satin finish, the wooden triggers for their flugelhorns, etc. I personally really like Carolbrass, and will buy almost anything they make, but I try to buy secondhand and won't pay markup for a stencil.

What'd you pay for your trumpet and when did you buy it? Phaeton's catalog is offline now:
https://phaetontrumpet.com/catalog/

There is a copy on the internet archive:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200222115149/https://phaetontrumpet.com/catalog/
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ECLtmpt2
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the Phaeton around 2008/2009 from a music major student. It wasn't a lot comparatively speaking. The horn plays very well but as mentioned it is dark and focused. It won't fill a room like my Bach or Schilke. For me the slotting around double line C is 'touchy' or at least very sensitive. Remember I'm just a serious amateur so your mileage may vary.

It's odd that finding out where a 'production' horn comes from is such a puzzle with all the company name buyouts and imports.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be nice if there were a Hoxon Gakki fan page that could track down all of the stencils and models. It will probably come someday.

I have a Mauriat with the dark finish and it plays a little mellower. Descriptions can be hard to tell: "dark and focused" versus "fills a room." I would say possible influences are bell profile and size, material (red or gold brass versus yellow), and (maybe) finish. Does the bell profile seem similar or is it wider? What finish does it have?

I'm an amateur also, and gear is part of the fun for me.
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mr.steve.m.hall@gmail.com
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a fairly recent Phaeton artist so may be able to help clarify.

Phaeton horns were created by Peter LaPlaca - see https://www.facebook.com/watch/Phaeton-Trumpet-130238543668755/

Although Peter plays woodwinds/flute I believe and not trumpet, he's had help designing the Phaeton horns. I've been told these horns are fabricated by CarolBrass but they may be assembled elsewhere.

Like many other people, I've owned LOTS of different horns - no less than 20 and have put them through the test.

I'm lucky to be able to get tone and projection out of any horn.
The thing about the Phaeton I play - 2030 but others too - is they give more than they take. And no matter how much time I've laid off, the horn is forgiving and give me my duration back quicker than most horns I've owned.

The semi-dark tone is there by default but just a strong push gets the lead sound so I get the commercial/solo duality. Many horns I've owned seem to be a one-trick pony - either commercial sound or dark jazz sound.

One challenge is the intonation can be a bit out and potential quality/variations between horns. But I've only owned four horns myself.

The consistent ability to play without feeling dragged down is what I like the most and brings me back.

Perhaps if I played 5+ hours daily I'd be in a different boat, but the Phaetons are a reliable relatively inexpensive GOTO gig horn IMO.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuningbell wrote:
Phaeton Trumpet is a division of F. E. Olds and Son, Inc.
Its all over the website.


They do better at splitting up the company officers names and addresses now, but a few years back it was easy to match the business address and officers of FE Olds to NEMC (National Educational Music Company - a player in the student rental market.)

The address for Phaeton is that of NEMC's first franchise location added in 1970.

Here's a rundown on the actual company behind these stencils.

https://www.company-histories.com/National-Educational-Music-Co-Ltd-Company-History.html
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a curious company. The "about" page says "Chicago trumpet guru Wayne Tanabe largely designed the trumpet, and it does play nicely." I find this... surprising? Maybe he did it pre-Yamaha?
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Tanabe consulted for Phaeton (and then started his own boutique trumpet company) before he joined Yamaha.
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