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Discussion on the current gen Xenos


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Letstalktrumpet
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:26 am    Post subject: Discussion on the current gen Xenos Reply with quote

Hello all,
I recently purchased a current gen 8335R and it is an incredible horn. I do not really see a lot of discussion about these horns or their standard leadpipe sibling.
What are some of your thoughts or experiences with the current gen xenos?
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SMrtn
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have nothing to say on the topic itself, other than I'm in the market for a pro level horn, so this topic will be of genuine interest to me.

May I ask though, what it so incredible about your Xeno?
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Trumptrevol
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I think nobody really talks about them because the custom artist models (9335 & 9445) are what people consider the current gen xenos
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hose
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve played a 8335R for over two years. It fits me and where I play everyday. Gets a large sound without a lot of effort and holds together. The build and intonation are precise as you would expect from Yamaha. I’ve played lots of great horns in my day and this is the best of all of them for my current elderly age. Not curious about anything better. I love the reverse lead pipe, but that’s just my taste.

I think you don’t see much talk about these Xenos because they are not new. Gen II came about 2015. Plenty of pros play them. Lots of talk both pro and con when they were new.
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Letstalktrumpet
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMrtn wrote:
I have nothing to say on the topic itself, other than I'm in the market for a pro level horn, so this topic will be of genuine interest to me.

May I ask though, what it so incredible about your Xeno?


Well I was playing a gen 1 Chicago when I bought the 8335R and I have since sold the Chicago. I found this particular 8335R to have more accurate slotting and less resistance above the staff than the Chicago. It also is a bit easier for me to play the top of staff F and low C# in tune on it than the Chicago I had. It is a tad brighter than the Chicago and a little more work to play at really loud volumes but for me the 8335R was the better choice.

I also had an 8335RG at the same time, and I thought that the RG did not play as well, but had a bit more warmth to the sound.

I am curious to see of other people have such positive experiences with these current xenos, especially since as evidenced by this post, people do not seem to bring them up much.
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Letstalktrumpet
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trumptrevol wrote:
Well, I think nobody really talks about them because the custom artist models (9335 & 9445) are what people consider the current gen xenos


I disagree. I do not hear the artist models really referred to as Xenos, though it is stamped on the bell. In my experience they are almost always referred to by the Chicago or New York name, whereas the 8xxx series is almost always referred to as the Xeno line.
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bebop
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:50 am    Post subject: Xeno II Reply with quote

Has anyone compared the 8335RSii with the 8345ii regular leadpipe?
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played the newer or newest generation Xeno 8335 and thought it was a fantastic player - much improved over the previous generation.

It's one of the few new horns I'd consider buying. I didn't, yet, but if I get a brand new horn someday, it's high on the list of candidates.
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AJCarter
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Letstalktrumpet wrote:
Trumptrevol wrote:
Well, I think nobody really talks about them because the custom artist models (9335 & 9445) are what people consider the current gen xenos


I disagree. I do not hear the artist models really referred to as Xenos, though it is stamped on the bell. In my experience they are almost always referred to by the Chicago or New York name, whereas the 8xxx series is almost always referred to as the Xeno line.


This is correct. The 9000 series are referred to by their nicknames or the artist series. When anyone says Xeno, they mean the 8000 series.

Having just finished a stint working at a music store where playing, researching, and selling trumpets was my job; I would be happy to share my input as they regularly stocked all Xeno models and I can tell you they are solid instruments.

I will agree they typically are talked about less than the artist models because most folks on here only talk about the artist models when comparing to Bach or other brands. FWIW, the store sold more Xenos than Bachs, and more students seemed to choose the Xeno without any prompting or leading from me.

Bebop: The 8335IIRS feels slightly less resistant and very flexible due to the reverse pipe, but the 8345IIS feels like it has more room to blossom sound wise when you give it more gas. I felt the 8335IIRS would redline sooner the the 8345IIS, but not as fast as an 8335IIS. I was told when they re-did the 8345 they changed the resistance point on the horn so it would blow more like a ML bore, but still get all the benefits and characteristics a large bore Bb would have.
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mikepodorski
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a gen 2 8335rs currently and had a gen 1 8345rs. First, both horns have incredible build quality and some of the best valves in the business. Admittedly, the 8345 was a bit too open for me, which may affect my opinion. The tone of the gen 1 was a bit boring. Slotting the top line F was suprisingly challenging. The gen 2 is head and shoulders above the gen 1 in my experience. Slotting is WAY better. They added a button or pull knob to the first slide and added an outside slide stop mount to the third slide which may help. The tone is beautiful with more character. I haven't played a ton of professional trumpets, but I'm VERY happy with it.
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Robejazz
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJCarter wrote:
Letstalktrumpet wrote:
Trumptrevol wrote:
Well, I think nobody really talks about them because the custom artist models (9335 & 9445) are what people consider the current gen xenos


I disagree. I do not hear the artist models really referred to as Xenos, though it is stamped on the bell. In my experience they are almost always referred to by the Chicago or New York name, whereas the 8xxx series is almost always referred to as the Xeno line.


This is correct. The 9000 series are referred to by their nicknames or the artist series. When anyone says Xeno, they mean the 8000 series.

Having just finished a stint working at a music store where playing, researching, and selling trumpets was my job; I would be happy to share my input as they regularly stocked all Xeno models and I can tell you they are solid instruments.

I will agree they typically are talked about less than the artist models because most folks on here only talk about the artist models when comparing to Bach or other brands. FWIW, the store sold more Xenos than Bachs, and more students seemed to choose the Xeno without any prompting or leading from me.

Bebop: The 8335IIRS feels slightly less resistant and very flexible due to the reverse pipe, but the 8345IIS feels like it has more room to blossom sound wise when you give it more gas. I felt the 8335IIRS would redline sooner the the 8345IIS, but not as fast as an 8335IIS. I was told when they re-did the 8345 they changed the resistance point on the horn so it would blow more like a ML bore, but still get all the benefits and characteristics a large bore Bb would have.


Ive tried the Xeno - but it was an earlier gen - I liked it, but ended up returning it for a Shew 2 - I really like the Shew 2. What are your thoughts on the current Xenos and the Shew 2?
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SMrtn
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a 6335 that I need to sell, then I'll get me that 8335G II I been a hankerin' after. I been messing about with the beggarly elements of the world for too long. Time to get reals.
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StephenVannevel
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Xeno II Reply with quote

bebop wrote:
Has anyone compared the 8335RSii with the 8345ii regular leadpipe?


Yes. I have owned both (the 8345II I got had a gold brass bell), I preferred the 8335IIRS because it is easier to control and get around on. It also has a clearer sound with a touch more shimmer. The 8345IIGS seemed a bit dull (likely the gold brass) and sluggish in comparison. The 8345IIGS had a much more open blow if that matters to you. It did seem to light up a bit more than the 8335IIGS when you push it hard in the upper register, however. YMMV.
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Last edited by StephenVannevel on Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BraeGrimes
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sort of privvy to a lot of this so maytbe I can weigh in and answer a few things about our Custom, Xeno, and Xeno Artist Series instruments.
Nomenclature
Custom instruments include the Bobby Shew, Bergeron (8335LA) and Miyashiro models (8340EM) but has also included a few other variants in the past. These are considered our "Commercial" range of trumpets, but also incorporates our flugels and harmony trumpets (not sure why, but it just does).
Xeno are the 8335, 8345, and 8445 models exclusively at the moment - the current gen is MK2 (for lack of a better term - gen II I guess works).
Xeno Artist series are all developed with 'classical' players - 9335, 9445 variants including the NY, CH, and VS (Vizutti variants).
My thoughts on the R vs Standard leadpipe debate
EVeryone is going to feel different about this really, but in general, the reverse leadpipe has a more open blow and is a heavier horn overall (thumb ring as opposed to saddle, and heavy receiver by comparison to the standard, also no 3rd waterkey which really does change the feeling between C and C# IMO). Overall, I think the R is a darker horn in the hands of most players. However, personally, I find it far more mouthpiece sensitive that the standard Xenos - if I put a shallower and/or narrower mouthpiece in it brightens up far more comparatively than the standard Xeno, and the reverse is true. Take all that for what it's worth.
8335 v 8345 (MLvsL)
Again, your results may vary. I like large bores, because I feel like I get more tonal variance out of them, but they can be tiring on a long Latin or large, loud ensemble gig. In an orchestra, it's a great sound for larger, brassier works, but it could be heavy-lifting toward the end of the concert as well (probably not all that bad really, but might be a consideration if you're gig is Xeankis and Mahler or something crazy like that). However. I ended up choosing the 8335SII when I was buying because it is a very normal, very well made, very in-tune trumpet. I blindfolded tested the entire range with a couple of colleagues, and I thought I'd end up with an 8335RG or 8345G. I got almost the opposite!
The 3rd stopper screw thing
So, this might be common knowledge, but there are two positions for the 3rd slide screw. I went in with my usual skepticism and was surprised the difference it made to the overall feel - hard to put a finger on, but the harmonics felt closer together in the 'inside position' as opposed to the 'outside position'. Small change = big difference. My initial thought is that the screw was in a position for low C# tuning and the outside position was for low Fs. Not the case. Having said that, I've had plenty of players not feel any difference, and honestly, that's ok too.

I hope that helps anyone, feel free to IM me if you have any other questions though or add to the thread and I'd be happy to tell you my thoughts.
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cbtj51
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BraeGrimes wrote:

My thoughts on the R vs Standard leadpipe debate
EVeryone is going to feel different about this really, but in general, the reverse leadpipe has a more open blow and is a heavier horn overall (thumb ring as opposed to saddle, and heavy receiver by comparison to the standard, also no 3rd waterkey which really does change the feeling between C and C# IMO). Overall, I think the R is a darker horn in the hands of most players. However, personally, I find it far more mouthpiece sensitive that the standard Xenos - if I put a shallower and/or narrower mouthpiece in it brightens up far more comparatively than the standard Xeno, and the reverse is true. Take all that for what it's worth.


While I have absolutely no experience with the MK2 or GenII versions of the 8335RGS, I find your observations to be spot on regarding the earlier iteration of 8335RGS, especially regarding the mouthpiece sensitivity.

Mike
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DH
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran across this last week... it's a 5 part history of Xeno trumpets. Very interesting read.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/contents/winds/trumpet_custom/behind_stories/index.html
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cbtj51
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you DH!

This was a very informative read!

Mike
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agroovin48
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only criticism i could have on this article is the omission of any discussion of the refinement of the Xeno 1 into the Xeno II. The Xeno II is a world class instrument
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Karel
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

agroovin48 wrote:
The only criticism i could have on this article is the omission of any discussion of the refinement of the Xeno 1 into the Xeno II. The Xeno II is a world class instrument


I have a lacquered Xeno 8335II and it’s an fantastic instrument. Absolute worldclass IMO.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karel wrote:
agroovin48 wrote:
The only criticism i could have on this article is the omission of any discussion of the refinement of the Xeno 1 into the Xeno II. The Xeno II is a world class instrument


I have a lacquered Xeno 8335II and it’s an fantastic instrument. Absolute worldclass IMO.


Hi

I have a lacquered 8335II too, and couldn't agree more. I find it to be a great trumpet.

All the best

Lou
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