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chapahi Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 1467 Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:11 pm Post subject: Hetman's valve oil |
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I wanted to get some Hetman's valve oil the other day and heard that they don't make it anymore. In fact someone said it's been two years already. What's a good valve oil like Hetman's? Thanks in advance for any replies. _________________ Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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WWBW has #2 and#3 valve oil listed for sale right now. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12662 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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The website for Herman’s is still active and doesn’t list any discontinued products. But the purchase link doesn’t work.
http://www.hetman.com/aboutus.html |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2413 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Hetman's valve oil |
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chapahi wrote: | I wanted to get some Hetman's valve oil the other day and heard that they don't make it anymore. In fact someone said it's been two years already. What's a good valve oil like Hetman's? Thanks in advance for any replies. |
This rumor has been out there for about three years. But in spite of these rumors, I continue to find Hetman products online and at my local music stores.
If they really are going out of business, they're sure taking their sweet time doing it. Maybe Hetman doesn't realize they can't go out of business if they continue to sell valve oil?
Go figure.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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supercow216 Regular Member
Joined: 02 Nov 2018 Posts: 60 Location: Finland
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:38 am Post subject: |
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If you live in Germany, you can get J. Meinlschmidt synthetic oil (number 2) on Thomann.
I did not use Hetman, but this is much better than any organic oil I used in consistency and impact duration (a few days).
It is less expensive than yamaha oil, and more accessible than Hetman in Europe _________________ Oink, oink.
I am still learning! |
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wiemelen Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 454 Location: Belgium
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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I used to buy Hetman from Adams in Belgium.
They have no more stock left when I went for new oil 2 weeks ago.
They also recommend J. Meinlschmidt synthetic oil as a replacement for Hetman cause they also come in various thickness. _________________ Trumpet : Yamaha YTR-9335CHS + Yamaha YTR-6335H
Trumpet mouthpieces : Lotus 2L (main) + Lotus 2L2
Flugelhorn : Kanstul 1525 with Curry 1,5FL
Cornet : Conn 80a (1919) with Curry 1,5 BBC + Curry 1,5 VC + GR L66,9 #6 |
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Maarten van Weverwijk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3377
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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As far as I understand:
Meinlschmidt bought the Hetman brand and production will be (has been?) moved to Germany.
I don´t know if that is a good thing or not, but distribution and retail have been extremely complicated since then and not all Hetman products are readily available anymore. I guess they are in some sort of transition period, but this has been going on for quite a while now…
All recent Hetman bottles come with a J.Meinlschmidt sticker, at least here in Europe.
MvW. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12662 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Missed your posts Maarten.
This thread from a year ago talks a little about the situation. Nothing official though in that thread. |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:16 am Post subject: |
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deleted
Last edited by delano on Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:24 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Maarten van Weverwijk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3377
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Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:17 am Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | Missed your posts Maarten. |
Thank you!
The past couple of years have been a very bumpy ride. I’ll gladly try to participate a bit more as soon as things calm down over here.
Kindest regards! |
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Divitt Trumpets Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2015 Posts: 520 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Maarten van Weverwijk wrote: | As far as I understand:
Meinlschmidt bought the Hetman brand and production will be (has been?) moved to Germany.
I don´t know if that is a good thing or not, but distribution and retail have been extremely complicated since then and not all Hetman products are readily available anymore. I guess they are in some sort of transition period, but this has been going on for quite a while now…
All recent Hetman bottles come with a J.Meinlschmidt sticker, at least here in Europe.
MvW. |
This is not true.
Hetman is still in business.
J.M. copied Hetman and released their own oil brand using Hetmans numbers. _________________ www.divitt-trumpets.com
www.facebook.com/divitt.trumpets
www.instagram.com/divitttrumpets |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2413 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Divitt Trumpets wrote: | This is not true.
Hetman is still in business.
J.M. copied Hetman and released their own oil brand using Hetmans numbers. |
Agreed. This is my understanding as well.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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supercow216 Regular Member
Joined: 02 Nov 2018 Posts: 60 Location: Finland
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Divitt Trumpets wrote: | Maarten van Weverwijk wrote: | As far as I understand:
Meinlschmidt bought the Hetman brand and production will be (has been?) moved to Germany.
I don´t know if that is a good thing or not, but distribution and retail have been extremely complicated since then and not all Hetman products are readily available anymore. I guess they are in some sort of transition period, but this has been going on for quite a while now…
All recent Hetman bottles come with a J.Meinlschmidt sticker, at least here in Europe.
MvW. |
This is not true.
Hetman is still in business.
J.M. copied Hetman and released their own oil brand using Hetmans numbers. |
Just curious, what you mean copy?
Do you mean only Hetmans number right? For chemical, we can't say the "design" is patented or protected any how. _________________ Oink, oink.
I am still learning! |
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Divitt Trumpets Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2015 Posts: 520 Location: Toronto
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12662 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:33 am Post subject: |
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supercow216 wrote: | Divitt Trumpets wrote: | Maarten van Weverwijk wrote: | As far as I understand:
Meinlschmidt bought the Hetman brand and production will be (has been?) moved to Germany.
I don´t know if that is a good thing or not, but distribution and retail have been extremely complicated since then and not all Hetman products are readily available anymore. I guess they are in some sort of transition period, but this has been going on for quite a while now…
All recent Hetman bottles come with a J.Meinlschmidt sticker, at least here in Europe.
MvW. |
This is not true.
Hetman is still in business.
J.M. copied Hetman and released their own oil brand using Hetmans numbers. |
Just curious, what you mean copy?
Do you mean only Hetmans number right? For chemical, we can't say the "design" is patented or protected any how. |
Actually we can say that if the formulation was patented.
I don't know if Hetman bothered to do so. Often things like formulations are not patented since the formula becomes public when the patent runs out. Even before the patent runs out the formulation can be found in the patent filings and unethical people can use the formulations after reading the patent. In addition enforcing a patent through legal proceedings is expensive.
Thus many treat it as trade secret instead.
Edit:
Note that I am basing my post on a quick google search for patents and oil. I found some surfactant and penetrating oil patents. The rest of the risk/benefit comes from discussions on patents from my time in the computer software industry. |
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J. Landress Brass Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 425 Location: New York City
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Hetman is still very much in business and making their wonderful products. There have been some serious delays in distribution over the past few years. From what I hear now, there is a supply chain issue with them getting their bottles which is causing some major delays. I order hetman from several different vendors and they sell out of what they get pretty quickly, which then makes stock levels at the store level pretty low. Hetman is still one of my best sellers and one of my favorite oils.
As for the Meinlschmidt oil... Meinlschmidt was the European distributor for Hetman for many years. With changes in EU regulation on oils and bottles along with slow delivery of Hetman, they needed to do something to fill the void, so they developed their own oils which are very similar. I am not a chemist nor do I know the formulas, they the Meinlschmidt oil is good. I ordered a bunch from them and have been starting to use it in the shop.
Josh _________________ Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com |
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Maarten van Weverwijk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3377
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:01 am Post subject: |
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I stand corrected.
My story was based on what I’ve heard in our local shop.
What still stands is that supply remains extremely complicated for many Hetman products, at least here in Europe.
MvW. |
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Brams New Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2021 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:40 am Post subject: |
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Bump to an old post just to confirm that JM oil is of totally
different manufacture than Hetman.
The numbering system isn't right, and the formula is not from Hetman.
I used classic for the old horns, and have a hard time to find a replacement.
the dealers sell JM3 as replacement for Hetman 3 like it is the same oil,
but it is clearly not the same and i won't ever put it in a horn again.
the JM oil is losing adhesion in a moist environment and will go down the
water key very soon.
making the valves run lean and the carpet run rich. |
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1B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2002 Posts: 611 Location: oregon
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 5:45 am Post subject: |
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Hi Brams,
I just found Hetman 3 available at Hickeys.com.
Good luck.
Jaimie Hall |
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raynjtrumpet Regular Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2021 Posts: 53 Location: Freehold, NJ
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Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:36 am Post subject: |
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I went to Ultra Pure when I couldn't find Heman's. No complaints after a year of use - seems virtually equivalent to me. _________________ Ray Ritchie
Freehold, NJ USA |
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