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chapahi Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 1465 Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:18 pm Post subject: High D open or first valve? |
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When playing lead lines that require a High D, do you play it open or with the first valve? Thanks in advance for any replies. _________________ Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super |
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Danbassin Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Depends on the horn and the harmonic context - to a certain extent. Some instruments slot really well with the first valve, some are better open. If the harmonic series of your instrument is reasonably true, the 9th harmonic (open) high D will be *a little bit* sharp, which can help this note in many circumstances. Mathematically, the 9th harmonic is about 4¢ sharp (“cents” break down a half-step into 100 parts) so this is a very small difference, and *Technically* below the comma of human hearing. We all, as trumpeters, know the dreaded 7th harmonic from splitting a high c, and ending up with a noticeably (about 31¢) flat Bb, so there you have a comparison for the respectively small tuning differences. That said, if you are, say in Concert Ab, and want to make a gorgeous sounding, true, Major 3rd at the end of a piece, or something similar, open on the high D may distort the chord.
What works best FOR YOU? _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Picc;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8331 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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I play it the way that feels the best and is most in tune.
Most of the time it's first valve, but I've played horns were open is better.
The above post is correct, that intonation depends on context. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 898 Location: California
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Depends on the horn and mouthpiece. I used to play it open on my Yamaha trumpet and ACB 3C and now I play it first valve on my X-13 and AR mouthpiece. |
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Craig Swartz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7769 Location: Des Moines, IA area
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:08 am Post subject: |
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It also depends (for me) on from where I'm coming and to where I'm going. In a linear passage I usually use first finger, if for no other reason than because I've been playing those fingering patterns for nearly 50 years. If just camping there at the end of a tune, open works fine. Once in a while, my 1st finger attempts seem a bit flat, especially if I'm "pushing", or tired.
And, not jazz, but playing "Bride of the Waves" I use open horn for "high Ds at the end of the 3 octave jumps that end on a fermata D3. Works well on my cornets, ditto on trumpet and is secure, probably due to what Danbassin wrote above.
Still, the best way to get there is to be sure to "hear it" before you try to play it, and to make darn certain that the pitch from where you come is as solid as a rock as well. Good luck. |
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trumpetjordy Regular Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2021 Posts: 20
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Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose the final answer for me would have to be: I use the fingering that is the most in tune and slots easiest depending on the musical context. This usually means playing high A's 3, high D's open, and the octave higher A on 2&3 for me (weird! but it's the best). Context can change intonation (I think somebody else already mentioned it) but here's something else~ when improvising or playing fast high-note lines through that high D area, I usually will finger D as 1 even if it is slightly out of tune. It's easier to play those fast lines with the traditional fingerings we all grew up with. If I need to hold the D for a quarter-note or longer, then I'll switch on impulse to the best option. I'm just happy to find that I'm not the only one out there who's over-analyzed this one! Some really good answers... |
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c cup Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2003 Posts: 158 Location: Charlotte, N.C.
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Just last night I had an epiphany about this very question. If you guys are familiar with the Thad Jones tune "Us", it has a brass soli section that the lead part has a jump from top line F to high D. I have always struggled with accuracy on that lick. It is a little tougher because it comes after you have been blowing a while. Last night I decided to play the D open and I haven't missed it since. (Of course today it might suck😀). But it seems there are times to use alternate fingerings that really help. I have been playing A above the staff with third valve for years because it is more accurate for me. High G works great with Third valve and A above that works great for me with 1st valve. Probably other people would prefer a different combination. I know it is different for different people and horns, mouthpieces, etc. But it is something everyone should experiment with from time to time. |
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dbacon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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DB
Last edited by dbacon on Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'm curious about flexibility and, specifically, shakes. Does anyone experience a difference in flexibility with one or the other fingering? And, what's the best option for shakes in C minor (concert Bb minor)? _________________ Kevin |
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c cup Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2003 Posts: 158 Location: Charlotte, N.C.
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Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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You can play C with 2 and 3 if it needs to be kind of in tune. |
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Bill Ortiz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904
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Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with what Dave said-if it's a moving line I'll use 1st valve and on a sustained or longer note I play it open, which is better in tune with my horn/setup. _________________ '56 Martin Committee Deluxe #2 trumpet
14B Schilke mouthpiece
Couesnon Paris flugelhorn
Bob Reeves Sleeves and PVA |
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kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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kevin_soda wrote: | I'm curious about flexibility and, specifically, shakes. Does anyone experience a difference in flexibility with one or the other fingering? And, what's the best option for shakes in C minor (concert Bb minor)? |
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I mean shakes on D in the key of C minor. So, 1st valve and open both wan to go to E natural... _________________ Kevin |
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Matthew Anklan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 1085 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:12 am Post subject: |
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I always use first valve. For me, playing it open gets a little bit out of control. _________________ Matthew Anklan
www.matthewanklan.com |
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trane1959 Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2011 Posts: 155
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:36 am Post subject: |
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FWIW, I have never had much success with any alternate fingerings above high C. I find the intended trumpet fingerings to be the easiest to slot and the most in tune. But hey, probably just me. _________________ EARL GARDNER - 4 LIFE!!!!!! |
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Gonya Regular Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2021 Posts: 30 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:56 am Post subject: |
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It depends on the instrument. On my old horn, open felt better, but I always use first valve on my current horn. Each instrument will have different slots and intonation tendencies. _________________ "Let's face it, god didn't create us specifically to play the trumpet." - Doc Severinsen |
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