• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

I want a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe.


Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
chef8489
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 850
Location: Johnson City Tn

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:08 pm    Post subject: I want a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. Reply with quote

Why cant Bach make this horn for me? They offer the 190 with the 43 and the 37 bell but not the 72 bell and wont allow a change of the lead pipe to a 43 pipe? I cant be the only one that would want this combo can I?
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Speed
Veteran Member


Joined: 13 May 2015
Posts: 295
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bach Commercial Trumpet is part of the 190 series, and it has a 43 leadpipe. The bell is unique to the Commercial Trumpet, so I'm not sure how you would compare it to a 72 bell. I very much like my LT190L1B. You might want to give it a try. It's also available in a ML bore.

Take care,
Marc Speed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 1B and 72 bells are opposites.

I am surprised Bach is not willing to build custom wit a 72 though. Have you talked to the people at the plant?
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
chef8489
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 850
Location: Johnson City Tn

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
The 1B and 72 bells are opposites.

I am surprised Bach is not willing to build custom wit a 72 though. Have you talked to the people at the plant?

Not yet. Not figured out if it will require a trip or if a phone call or email will suffice.
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Goby
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Jun 2017
Posts: 641

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the 190 72 is coming out this January. I believe they're also releasing the 190 72V "Rashawn Ross signature" model with a vindabona tuning slide and nickel silver leadpipe.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Subtropical and Subpar
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 615
Location: Here and there

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the proud 25-year owner of a Bach 72, I find it odd that bell never got the Anniversary or Artisan treatment. I'm not sure exactly what this says or means, but every non-Bach player I talk to about Bachs ends up saying they think the 72 is Bach's best bell.

Meanwhile 72-style bells are becoming more popular among other makers - Shires' CLW, various Carolbrass horns, the Thane trumpets, etc., so I guess it's surprising the progenitor of that bell doesn't have a top-line offering for it.
_________________
1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chef8489
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 850
Location: Johnson City Tn

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
As the proud 25-year owner of a Bach 72, I find it odd that bell never got the Anniversary or Artisan treatment. I'm not sure exactly what this says or means, but every non-Bach player I talk to about Bachs ends up saying they think the 72 is Bach's best bell.

Meanwhile 72-style bells are becoming more popular among other makers - Shires' CLW, various Carolbrass horns, the Thane trumpets, etc., so I guess it's surprising the progenitor of that bell doesn't have a top-line offering for it.

Out of all the Bach trumpets I tried, nothing sounded as good to me like the 72. I live my lr180s72. I loved the 72/43 I tried a few times back in Texas and was planning on getting a 43 reverse pipe for my current horn. That is till I thought about a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe.
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 72 bell is Bach's last mainstream bell. It might arguably be called a Selmer bell, though it is definitely a Vincent Bach creation.

The 72 really caught on not just through the success of the LR180-72, but through the label and boutique stencil horns built by Kanstul with their 72 bell that actually has a slightly fatter transition to the flair.

Just the same, It is surprising that Conn-Selmer has not focused more on what is arguably the second most popular Bach configuration of all time.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
a.kemp
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 675
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patience, guys….

Last edited by a.kemp on Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
J. Landress Brass
Veteran Member


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 423
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one of the new 72 prototypes in my shop if anyone is interested in coming to check it out...

Josh
_________________
Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
chef8489
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 850
Location: Johnson City Tn

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J. Landress Brass wrote:
I have one of the new 72 prototypes in my shop if anyone is interested in coming to check it out...

Josh

How does it compare to the 180s72
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dr_trumpet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 2533
Location: Cope, IN

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: I want a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
Why cant Bach make this horn for me? They offer the 190 with the 43 and the 37 bell but not the 72 bell and wont allow a change of the lead pipe to a 43 pipe? I cant be the only one that would want this combo can I?


I as a Bach artists aked for a horn in that configuration and told no, three times in fact. I want mine in a large bore with a 72 lightweight bell but was told no to that as well. So I asked for a standard 180 Bb large bore with a 72G bell and was also told no.

It isn't just you....
_________________
Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Subtropical and Subpar
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 615
Location: Here and there

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
As the proud 25-year owner of a Bach 72, I find it odd that bell never got the Anniversary or Artisan treatment. I'm not sure exactly what this says or means, but every non-Bach player I talk to about Bachs ends up saying they think the 72 is Bach's best bell.

Meanwhile 72-style bells are becoming more popular among other makers - Shires' CLW, various Carolbrass horns, the Thane trumpets, etc., so I guess it's surprising the progenitor of that bell doesn't have a top-line offering for it.

Out of all the Bach trumpets I tried, nothing sounded as good to me like the 72. I live my lr180s72. I loved the 72/43 I tried a few times back in Texas and was planning on getting a 43 reverse pipe for my current horn. That is till I thought about a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe.


That's why I bought mine back in 9th grade;-) My teacher sent me to Osmund with instructions to buy a Bach Strad. They put out three or four to try, and I chose a 72 bell with a reversed 25 leadpipe. Mind you all I knew that was different about the horn was was that it had a reversed leadpipe. Osmun probably told me about the bells, but I wasn't paying attention. To be completely honest I didn't even know there were different bells until I started playing again five or six years ago. Now I'm in that dreadful spot where my beloved Bach has developed a spot or two of rot and I'm torn between restoring/Blueprinting it or selling it towards getting a Shires or Thane or this rumored Bach 190 with a 72 bell.
_________________
1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Subtropical and Subpar
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 615
Location: Here and there

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
The 72 bell is Bach's last mainstream bell. It might arguably be called a Selmer bell, though it is definitely a Vincent Bach creation.

The 72 really caught on not just through the success of the LR180-72, but through the label and boutique stencil horns built by Kanstul with their 72 bell that actually has a slightly fatter transition to the flair.

Just the same, It is surprising that Conn-Selmer has not focused more on what is arguably the second most popular Bach configuration of all time.


I didn't know the 72 bell was that popular! Just from reading TH threads it always seemed that "everyone" gravitated towards a 37 or 43 bell.

Which Kanstul is a stencil of the 72?
_________________
1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: I want a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. Reply with quote

dr_trumpet wrote:
So I asked for a standard 180 Bb large bore with a 72G bell and was also told no.


I just went on the build-a-Bach site and was able to configure a 180 L bore with standard or reversed 25 pipe, a gold brass 72 bell in standard or lightweight. In the 180s, all options appear available for order online.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
chef8489
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 850
Location: Johnson City Tn

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: I want a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
dr_trumpet wrote:
So I asked for a standard 180 Bb large bore with a 72G bell and was also told no.


I just went on the build-a-Bach site and was able to configure a 180 L bore with standard or reversed 25 pipe, a gold brass 72 bell in standard or lightweight. In the 180s, all options appear available for order online.

Yep with the 180 I can get it any way I want it. Just want the 2 piece valve block of the 190. I have no idea even if the 190 offers anything over the 180 but its just something I want. LOL I might just get a 43 reverse pipe and have my local shop install it on my current horn. Who knows.
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
Which Kanstul is a stencil of the 72?


Kanstul 1503 and 1504 used the Kanstul 72 bell, as did several boutique stencils they built such as the AW Concert-460. The BAC Paseo Z72 also uses that bell.

It should be noted it is not a clone. In the same note to Zig in which he said "I don't know what the #7 bell is supposed to be" Byron emphasized several times that "our 72 bell" is consistently "much larger than Bach 72". Specifically, the transition between flare and stem is wider.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20


Last edited by OldSchoolEuph on Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
OldSchoolEuph
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2426

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: I want a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
Yep with the 180 I can get it any way I want it. Just want the 2 piece valve block of the 190. I have no idea even if the 190 offers anything over the 180 but its just something I want. LOL I might just get a 43 reverse pipe and have my local shop install it on my current horn. Who knows.


My favorite is my Mt. Vernon (43), so I have this temptation to buy a 190, cut 1/2" off the tuning slide legs, and install a "lightweight" 180 bell.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dr_trumpet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 2533
Location: Cope, IN

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: I want a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
OldSchoolEuph wrote:
dr_trumpet wrote:
So I asked for a standard 180 Bb large bore with a 72G bell and was also told no.


I just went on the build-a-Bach site and was able to configure a 180 L bore with standard or reversed 25 pipe, a gold brass 72 bell in standard or lightweight. In the 180s, all options appear available for order online.

Yep with the 180 I can get it any way I want it. Just want the 2 piece valve block of the 190. I have no idea even if the 190 offers anything over the 180 but its just something I want. LOL I might just get a 43 reverse pipe and have my local shop install it on my current horn. Who knows.


I can use the configurator too, but did you place the order and see if you got one? Many internet tools can say you can order something, but the pandemic has made a huge difference in what is REALLY being produced. That said, I understand why I might not be able to get an instrument right now in our world. This is not a criticism of Bach. The new generation of leadership is creating new instruments and new designs based on the traditional designs, and the commercial trumpet is one of those instruments.

My point regarding the 72 bell instruments. I currently have a large bore 72 bell 180, made at the Bach factory in the 1990s. One of my students has a ML 72 sterling bell, and I used to own a 72GH, large bore, reversed 43 leadpipe. All three were made in the 1990s. When I asked in 2018, I was told those were no longer available, and have not really "rechecked" since that time. In my case, I got three in the 1990s because I could then. I'd love to replace my current 72 because it is getting long in the tooth. Maybe the new prototype I have heard about will fit the bill.
_________________
Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Subtropical and Subpar
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 615
Location: Here and there

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
Subtropical and Subpar wrote:
Which Kanstul is a stencil of the 72?


Kanstul 1503 and 1504 used the Kanstul 72 bell, as did several boutique stencils they built such as the AW Concert-460. The BAC Paseo Z72 also uses that bell.

It should be noted it is not a clone. In the same note to Zig in which he said "I don't know what the #7 bell is supposed to be" Byron emphasized several times that "our 72 bell" is consistently "much larger than Bach 72". Specifically, the transition between flare and stem is wider.


Ah, thanks for that. I see from their still-intact website that the 1500 and 1500-A also both used the #7 bell. Very intriguing, as the 1500 bell was copper and the 1500-A bell was bronze, with a fairly chunky body. So many tonal possibilities!
_________________
1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group