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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 857 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:08 pm Post subject: I want a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. |
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Why cant Bach make this horn for me? They offer the 190 with the 43 and the 37 bell but not the 72 bell and wont allow a change of the lead pipe to a 43 pipe? I cant be the only one that would want this combo can I? _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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Speed Veteran Member
Joined: 13 May 2015 Posts: 295 Location: Mississippi
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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The Bach Commercial Trumpet is part of the 190 series, and it has a 43 leadpipe. The bell is unique to the Commercial Trumpet, so I'm not sure how you would compare it to a 72 bell. I very much like my LT190L1B. You might want to give it a try. It's also available in a ML bore.
Take care,
Marc Speed |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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The 1B and 72 bells are opposites.
I am surprised Bach is not willing to build custom wit a 72 though. Have you talked to the people at the plant? _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 857 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | The 1B and 72 bells are opposites.
I am surprised Bach is not willing to build custom wit a 72 though. Have you talked to the people at the plant? |
Not yet. Not figured out if it will require a trip or if a phone call or email will suffice. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 648
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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the 190 72 is coming out this January. I believe they're also releasing the 190 72V "Rashawn Ross signature" model with a vindabona tuning slide and nickel silver leadpipe. |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 624 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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As the proud 25-year owner of a Bach 72, I find it odd that bell never got the Anniversary or Artisan treatment. I'm not sure exactly what this says or means, but every non-Bach player I talk to about Bachs ends up saying they think the 72 is Bach's best bell.
Meanwhile 72-style bells are becoming more popular among other makers - Shires' CLW, various Carolbrass horns, the Thane trumpets, etc., so I guess it's surprising the progenitor of that bell doesn't have a top-line offering for it. _________________ 1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 857 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | As the proud 25-year owner of a Bach 72, I find it odd that bell never got the Anniversary or Artisan treatment. I'm not sure exactly what this says or means, but every non-Bach player I talk to about Bachs ends up saying they think the 72 is Bach's best bell.
Meanwhile 72-style bells are becoming more popular among other makers - Shires' CLW, various Carolbrass horns, the Thane trumpets, etc., so I guess it's surprising the progenitor of that bell doesn't have a top-line offering for it. |
Out of all the Bach trumpets I tried, nothing sounded as good to me like the 72. I live my lr180s72. I loved the 72/43 I tried a few times back in Texas and was planning on getting a 43 reverse pipe for my current horn. That is till I thought about a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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The 72 bell is Bach's last mainstream bell. It might arguably be called a Selmer bell, though it is definitely a Vincent Bach creation.
The 72 really caught on not just through the success of the LR180-72, but through the label and boutique stencil horns built by Kanstul with their 72 bell that actually has a slightly fatter transition to the flair.
Just the same, It is surprising that Conn-Selmer has not focused more on what is arguably the second most popular Bach configuration of all time. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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a.kemp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 677 Location: NYC
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Patience, guys….
Last edited by a.kemp on Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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J. Landress Brass Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 425 Location: New York City
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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I have one of the new 72 prototypes in my shop if anyone is interested in coming to check it out...
Josh _________________ Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 857 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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J. Landress Brass wrote: | I have one of the new 72 prototypes in my shop if anyone is interested in coming to check it out...
Josh |
How does it compare to the 180s72 _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: I want a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. |
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chef8489 wrote: | Why cant Bach make this horn for me? They offer the 190 with the 43 and the 37 bell but not the 72 bell and wont allow a change of the lead pipe to a 43 pipe? I cant be the only one that would want this combo can I? |
I as a Bach artists aked for a horn in that configuration and told no, three times in fact. I want mine in a large bore with a 72 lightweight bell but was told no to that as well. So I asked for a standard 180 Bb large bore with a 72G bell and was also told no.
It isn't just you.... _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 624 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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chef8489 wrote: | Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | As the proud 25-year owner of a Bach 72, I find it odd that bell never got the Anniversary or Artisan treatment. I'm not sure exactly what this says or means, but every non-Bach player I talk to about Bachs ends up saying they think the 72 is Bach's best bell.
Meanwhile 72-style bells are becoming more popular among other makers - Shires' CLW, various Carolbrass horns, the Thane trumpets, etc., so I guess it's surprising the progenitor of that bell doesn't have a top-line offering for it. |
Out of all the Bach trumpets I tried, nothing sounded as good to me like the 72. I live my lr180s72. I loved the 72/43 I tried a few times back in Texas and was planning on getting a 43 reverse pipe for my current horn. That is till I thought about a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. |
That's why I bought mine back in 9th grade;-) My teacher sent me to Osmund with instructions to buy a Bach Strad. They put out three or four to try, and I chose a 72 bell with a reversed 25 leadpipe. Mind you all I knew that was different about the horn was was that it had a reversed leadpipe. Osmun probably told me about the bells, but I wasn't paying attention. To be completely honest I didn't even know there were different bells until I started playing again five or six years ago. Now I'm in that dreadful spot where my beloved Bach has developed a spot or two of rot and I'm torn between restoring/Blueprinting it or selling it towards getting a Shires or Thane or this rumored Bach 190 with a 72 bell. _________________ 1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 624 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | The 72 bell is Bach's last mainstream bell. It might arguably be called a Selmer bell, though it is definitely a Vincent Bach creation.
The 72 really caught on not just through the success of the LR180-72, but through the label and boutique stencil horns built by Kanstul with their 72 bell that actually has a slightly fatter transition to the flair.
Just the same, It is surprising that Conn-Selmer has not focused more on what is arguably the second most popular Bach configuration of all time. |
I didn't know the 72 bell was that popular! Just from reading TH threads it always seemed that "everyone" gravitated towards a 37 or 43 bell.
Which Kanstul is a stencil of the 72? _________________ 1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: I want a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. |
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dr_trumpet wrote: | So I asked for a standard 180 Bb large bore with a 72G bell and was also told no. |
I just went on the build-a-Bach site and was able to configure a 180 L bore with standard or reversed 25 pipe, a gold brass 72 bell in standard or lightweight. In the 180s, all options appear available for order online. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 857 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: I want a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | dr_trumpet wrote: | So I asked for a standard 180 Bb large bore with a 72G bell and was also told no. |
I just went on the build-a-Bach site and was able to configure a 180 L bore with standard or reversed 25 pipe, a gold brass 72 bell in standard or lightweight. In the 180s, all options appear available for order online. |
Yep with the 180 I can get it any way I want it. Just want the 2 piece valve block of the 190. I have no idea even if the 190 offers anything over the 180 but its just something I want. LOL I might just get a 43 reverse pipe and have my local shop install it on my current horn. Who knows. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | Which Kanstul is a stencil of the 72? |
Kanstul 1503 and 1504 used the Kanstul 72 bell, as did several boutique stencils they built such as the AW Concert-460. The BAC Paseo Z72 also uses that bell.
It should be noted it is not a clone. In the same note to Zig in which he said "I don't know what the #7 bell is supposed to be" Byron emphasized several times that "our 72 bell" is consistently "much larger than Bach 72". Specifically, the transition between flare and stem is wider. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Last edited by OldSchoolEuph on Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: I want a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. |
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chef8489 wrote: | Yep with the 180 I can get it any way I want it. Just want the 2 piece valve block of the 190. I have no idea even if the 190 offers anything over the 180 but its just something I want. LOL I might just get a 43 reverse pipe and have my local shop install it on my current horn. Who knows. |
My favorite is my Mt. Vernon (43), so I have this temptation to buy a 190, cut 1/2" off the tuning slide legs, and install a "lightweight" 180 bell. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: I want a 190 with a 72 bell and 43 pipe. |
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chef8489 wrote: | OldSchoolEuph wrote: | dr_trumpet wrote: | So I asked for a standard 180 Bb large bore with a 72G bell and was also told no. |
I just went on the build-a-Bach site and was able to configure a 180 L bore with standard or reversed 25 pipe, a gold brass 72 bell in standard or lightweight. In the 180s, all options appear available for order online. |
Yep with the 180 I can get it any way I want it. Just want the 2 piece valve block of the 190. I have no idea even if the 190 offers anything over the 180 but its just something I want. LOL I might just get a 43 reverse pipe and have my local shop install it on my current horn. Who knows. |
I can use the configurator too, but did you place the order and see if you got one? Many internet tools can say you can order something, but the pandemic has made a huge difference in what is REALLY being produced. That said, I understand why I might not be able to get an instrument right now in our world. This is not a criticism of Bach. The new generation of leadership is creating new instruments and new designs based on the traditional designs, and the commercial trumpet is one of those instruments.
My point regarding the 72 bell instruments. I currently have a large bore 72 bell 180, made at the Bach factory in the 1990s. One of my students has a ML 72 sterling bell, and I used to own a 72GH, large bore, reversed 43 leadpipe. All three were made in the 1990s. When I asked in 2018, I was told those were no longer available, and have not really "rechecked" since that time. In my case, I got three in the 1990s because I could then. I'd love to replace my current 72 because it is getting long in the tooth. Maybe the new prototype I have heard about will fit the bill. _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 624 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | Which Kanstul is a stencil of the 72? |
Kanstul 1503 and 1504 used the Kanstul 72 bell, as did several boutique stencils they built such as the AW Concert-460. The BAC Paseo Z72 also uses that bell.
It should be noted it is not a clone. In the same note to Zig in which he said "I don't know what the #7 bell is supposed to be" Byron emphasized several times that "our 72 bell" is consistently "much larger than Bach 72". Specifically, the transition between flare and stem is wider. |
Ah, thanks for that. I see from their still-intact website that the 1500 and 1500-A also both used the #7 bell. Very intriguing, as the 1500 bell was copper and the 1500-A bell was bronze, with a fairly chunky body. So many tonal possibilities! _________________ 1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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