I need a little advice for a youngster

[Getzen]

A friend of the family has a son entering into his third year (7th grade) of school music playing the trumpet. He took to it really well when he started and excelled pretty quickly. One of those kids excited to practice and learn.

Unfortunately, this summer he got braces (top and bottom) and it has really messed with his playing. To the point that he was seriously considering quitting band. The mom asked me for any advice I could give him. Fortunately for me, I never had to deal with playing with braces. I did have friends that did and I know it was a real pain, literally and figuratively, to deal with.

I figured somebody on here would be able to give me some better first hand advice I could pass along to help this kid and keep him on the horn. Any tips, tricks, or suggestions to make it easier on his lips and to help him adjust his embouchure accordingly? What about mouthpiece recommendations?
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Brett Getzen
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[Brassnose]

I played through it for years, Blessing and a 5C. No fun, but I made it. Today I would look into getting (renting or borrowing) a tenor horn, baritone horn, valve bone or the like. At the time I didn’t even know these existed but now I do. In retrospect, playing low brass for a while (and maybe go light on the trumpet) would have avoided the permanent lip injuries/problems caused by the braces and would at the same time also have supported my airstream development, among others.

Get him a Getzen valve bone
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[kehaulani]

@Brassnose - p.m. sent.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[kehaulani]

Brett, I read these two posts wrongly. It likely doesn't apply to you, but I'll re-post anyway, (sent a pm to Brassnose), FWIW.

I've got a pristine Yamaha valve bone I could part with if it can help. If not, no foul. As we say in Hawai'i, "If can, can. If no can, no can." LOL
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[deleted_user_687c31b]

Have you considered talking to his orthodontist? There are other ways to align teeth besides fixed brackets. It’ll require some more thought and effort by the orthodontist (and may be a bit more expensive). However, if the kid’s a prodigy then it’d be a shame if they’d quit because of this.

[Brad361]

[rdpyle]

I have been teaching students in this age group for more years than I want to think about. Every year I have multiple students get braces. It is absolutely possible to adjust to playing with braces, and to adjust again when they come off.

When the braces go on, the student is essentially given a new embouchure. Therefore, the old way of playing will likely no longer work. Forget about the level they are at, and go back to square one. I always bring a bag of mouthpieces to the first lesson after getting braces, and the only goal is to find something that doesn't put pressure right on the corner of a bracket. Usually the student will end up on something slightly bigger or at least with a different rim profile. Occasionally it will be much bigger, very rarely smaller. Some students use wax or brace guards until they get used to the feel of braces, but most of them agree with me that the last thing we want to do is add even more stuff inside the mouth.

Once a comfortable mouthpiece is found, I go all the way back to the first page of their beginner method, and rebuild from scratch. The good news is that because they have already developed some strength and control, things progress much more rapidly than when they were true beginners. What might have taken weeks to learn as a beginner may only take a few days. High range and flexibility are expected to be the last skills to return, due to the braces digging in to the back of the lips. I constantly stress to the student to work from a place of ease, and gradually expand the playing skills to encompass more difficult things. At no time should they be allowed to sacrifice good technique! If something doesn't work without pressing, twisting, or any manner of forcing, then it is a skill that will have to develop later.

My average student takes about 4-6 weeks to really feel like they are able to play well again, even if certain skills may be lagging. The majority of ones who take longer are usually clinging to their old way of playing, and it is not until they embrace a different way that works for them that progress can begin.

Perhaps the most difficult thing is helping the student mentally. It can be crushing to a young player, especially one who is dedicated and has excelled, to no longer be able to play at the level to which they are accustomed. I prepare my students for braces starting weeks before the actual date, so they know what to expect. When teaching, I use the strategies laid out by Carol S. Dweck in her book Mindset, encouraging the student to think of this as a challenge to overcome, and emphasizing the process over the results. Praise the successes, but remind the student that the other things that may not be going so well are works in progress. The goal is to build the student up through a series of successes, however small, in order to maintain a positive outlook. I have also been known to intervene with band directors, in order to ensure that the student is not being forced to play things beyond their current ability. Above all, remind the student that this is only temporary, and that many of the best players in the world survived braces, and that at one point in time those players were struggling with the exact same issues. We were all beginners once!

Robin

[kehaulani]

@rdpyle -
Robin - at that impatient age when, at least in U.S. culture, instant gratification is so common, isn't going back to the beginning a real challenge? How do you deal with that? Thanks.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[mike ansberry]

My son was a fine player in middle school. 1st chair in local honor bands, 3rd chair 2 years in midstate. (all of middle Tennessee). He got braces and it wrecked his playing. But he loved playing and kept after it. We used an epoxy putty mix that you molded to your braces. It was the only thing that worked. I have had kids use Morgan Bumpers (I taught middle school band) with some success. But if I was going to do it all over again I would get him online lessons with Jeff Smiley and get him into the Balanced Embouchure method.

Jeff advertises that his method works for kids who get braces. I have started using his method over the last 2 years. I don't have braces, but I can see how my new embouchure would work better with braces than my old traditional embouchure.

And I would highly recommend invisalign braces. I started using them last week. The orthodontist is allowing me to wear them without the studs on my teeth until I finish an important upcoming gig. I only have the brace on my lower teeth. The uppers don't need braces. I can play with the brace in, but it will require a little work to get used to playing with it. But it doesn't cause the kind of pain I've seen with regular braces in my students.
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Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.

[blbaumgarn]

I faced this as a decision when 14-15 and my parents, (who always supported me in music) said the decision was mine. I opted to not have braces because I had been to enough music performance contests by that age to see how they mess with players. Now, at 71 there have been tooth situations over the years.
I admire the teacher who said he has worked with alot of young players who have braces. My teacher at the time, who was very wise, said it isn't going to be easy playing at all. It's a to each his own. Good Luck to the young person you have talked about.
_________________
"There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush

[LennyLTrump]

I went through similar challenges. I only started trumpet early this year, made decent progress, then my primary dentist said I need to get braces for teeth alignment.

One of the questions orthodontist asked is whether I play any instruments. I mentioned alto sax for several years, and that I'm new to trumpet.

I went with the invisalign-type. There are a few brands but Invisalign is recognizable. They're user removable for meals. However, because no air can pass between the top teeth gaps or the lower teeth gaps, they cause me to lisp (actually sounds like "lithp") when speaking. Obviously affects the airflow when playing trumpet. Even being removable, I practice while wearing them since they're supposed to be on for at least 22 hours a day. Took a few days before I could produce a consistent sound.

I don't have first hand experience with traditional braces (my violinist kids have them) but because they have protruding wire holders glued to each tooth, I can see that they change the gap, shape, and airflow between the front teeth and the mouth. I can also see that someone who plays with significant pressure between mouthpiece and mouth (I don't, I use very little pressure) can be subjected to pain and even injury.

With both types, traditional and invisalign-type, the embouchure changes but the latter is removable so there's an option to remove before playing but I don't think my orthodontist would approve. The orthodontist also explained to me that the traditional wired braces provide more control on teeth alignment. They're also less expensive.

Next embouchure challenge will be after the treatment is done and the braces are removed and we're supposed to use retainers thereafter to keep the teeth from moving back.

[rdpyle]

[THE BD]

I have had several students over the years go through getting braces both on and off. Generally, it is not a surprise to be getting braces and the student knows it is going to be happening well in advance.

Since we know what is coming, we approach it head on. We start going back to basics before the switch and build that into their routine ahead of time, and it has made things so much smoother and easier! Range and flexibility take some time to return, but they are much more comfortable with the switch in general that way.
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Martin D Williams

Yeah, I did that!

[cheiden]

[cheiden]

[kehaulani]

@rdpyle - thanks, Robin.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Billy B]

[mafields627]

[rdpyle]

[Denny Schreffler]

Lots of good advice, already.

• Try to find a ►Neill Sanders◄ mpc.

In looking online for — and not finding — Keith Amstutz’s Brace Guard product, I ran into this old essay by Jim Donaldson on the Children’s Music Workshop site …
https://www.childrensmusicworkshop.com/resources/articles/braces/

—Denny