Pulling tuning slide out to tune half step down

[Mustachio55]

So for the last 15 years or so, I've been using a "hack" to tune my Bb trumpet down a half step by pulling the main tuning slide out nearly all the way. In most of the circles I play with (blues / rock / folk), the vast majority of songs seem to be in concert E or A, so I find most of the chords are significantly easier to play with with the tuning slide out. For your typical 1-4-5 blues, this changes the trumpet key to G-C-D (for concert E) or C-F-G (for concert A) - which is significantly easier to play than trumpet F#-B-C# or in B-E-F# in normal tuning on a Bb trumpet. Those are far harder keys that generally seem to require more 3rd valve usage (for me at least)

I don't run into other trumpet players too often, and when I mention this it's never come up as an idea, and I seem to get somewhat of a vibe of animosity / hostility for this hack. The only downside to this is that if the tuning slide is freshly greased, it can fall out sometimes if you pick it up from an upright position too fast. I'm curious if anyone else has used this technique too for easy transposing, or what their thoughts are on this?

[kehaulani]

This is not meant to sound condescending but it probably will - sorry. Playing in those keys is standard and you should learn how to. Period. Knowing them. in addition to the intonation and timbre securities mentioned below, free you up considerably.

I played saxes for about 20 years professionally and learned all the "weird" keys. You have to play in your F#, B, C# etc. It's really not that hard once you just do it. There are tons of scale, arpeggio etc. studies in Arban you can use.

I can't speak for everyone, but if I did what you are doing, I'd have trouble with my intonation. How's yours? Do you play tightly intonation-wise with your fellow horn players? If my tuning slide was so far out it occasionally fell on the floor, I would doubt that.

I'm not saying it's impossible. Maybe you've got great shops and the timbre isn't also affected. I saw Don Jacoby take a solo with the NT One O'clock Band once with his tuning slide way out and it worked. But it wasn't all the way out, he was joking and he was Don Jacoby.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[JoseLindE4]

Just get a vintage cornet with a quick change to A and you’re all set.

[Jaw04]

[Brad361]

[ECLtmpt2]

If you are looking for a 'hack' or the easy way, I can't believe I'm even going here (we are talking about playing a Bb trumpet and improv), but you can play the modified pentatonic scale (blues scale) over both concert E (Gb/F#) and concert A (B Maj) without a lot of accidentals. Using the tonic blues scale exclusively over a I, IV, V progression needs a little discretion and can get boring but...FYI:

In Gb/F# (concert E): Gb, A, B, C, Db, E, Gb, pretty easy fingering.

For B Maj (concert A): B, D, E, F, F#, A, B. In the 'middle' register also pretty easy fingering.

If you are really serious about improv your 12 majors & harmonic minors (at least) should be 2nd nature. Look into the Jamey Aebersold section here on TH.

[huntman10]

Well, it isnt a new idea, piccolo trumpet players still do it all the time, with their A pipes. Back in the early 20th century, most cornets and a lot of trumpets were commonly supplied with A pull markings, or even A stop rods or the famous Conn 80A "mechanism" that set 4 slides at once to either Bb or A. It is just that the OP makes it sound so imprecise, I suppose. If you use your 1st and 3rd slides, or you are good at note bending, *maybe* you can make it work.

It's not for me, but I can't play unless it is written out plainly and I have my specs and good lighting, anyway. With or without a tangle of sharps or flats up there on the upper right hand corner. So I can't judge unless I hear something wrong, I guess.
_________________
huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.

[Dale Proctor]

I used to have a 1920s Conn 22B trumpet with a rotary valve in the tuning slide that when turned, put the horn in A. I used it quite a few times for parts in A and it worked great.
_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[deleted_user_687c31b]

[Vin DiBona]

Some other notes are going to be out of tune.
I did this in music school when we were short on clarinets and was asked to play their parts. Quite a few were for A clarinet.
When the slide was out, I was very out of tune on certain notes and the sound was not good.
The simple fix is learn the other keys!! Practice until they become easy.
Very few things on the trumpet come easy and hard and smart practice goes a long way.
R. Tomasek

[Richard III]

I knew there was a reason to keep my Conn 80A cornet. If you have an instrument designed to play in either Bb or A, why not use it? In the old days things were different. I have an old mellophone that has all the tuning bits and crooks. The slides have etched rings to make it easier to pull to the correct setting. It plays in F, Eb, D and C.
_________________
Richard

Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet

[Leeway]

I've done this myself. Usually in a non Brass friendly environment! Everybody (usually guitarists) wants to play in concert E or A or D and they just don't get that these aren't the greatest keys to play in for us.
They want brilliance but transposing up or down a half step on THEIR instruments is out of the question!!!

Obviously its not optimal to tune down to A and put the horn all out of whack.

Sure, work on all 12 and aim for fluidity in all keys.

But the idea of a vintage horn with an A Crook is a damn good idea!

What we do is supposed to be fun as well as possibly the greatest musical challenge there is.
Which ever way you go, enjoy it!
People will enjoy your music, they won't be getting all miffed 'coz you "cheat" with a tuning slide or a Crook!

Leave that for stuffy trumpet players. Jeez, that Miles Davis fella made a bad example; took himself so seriously and nobody else!
Just play the damn thing!

[chapahi]

Playing in extreme cold outside, the horn sounds great. The tone carries well and articulations have a special crispness. But...even with the tuning slide all the way in it's hopelessly flat. Sometimes I can get the guitars, etc... to tune to a 438 hz A. But a quick fix is to pull the slide out and transpose to the next key up. That latter solution works but the intonation is off because the lengths of the valve slides are designed for Bb.
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Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super

[TrumpetMD]

I've done it once or twice on a gig with my jazz trio (guitar, bass, trumpet), to see how it would work. I'm pretty sure it was a song in F# minor, and I'm pretty sure at least one time I was playing/soloing on My Favorite Things. I pulled out slides and played the song in G minor.

I pulled out the tuning slide (of course). I also pulled out the 3rd valve dump slide and the first valve slide just a bit. It worked for me.

Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.

[huntman10]

About 12 or so years back when the Chinese brass instruments were flooding the market on eBay with auctions starting at less than a buck, I put a bid on a very weird Berkeley Db (C#) trumpet just to see what their build quality was. The valves and slide fit was better than I expected, but the thing was wildly out of tune. Close examination showed they had simply taken an Eb body and stuck their C bell on it. I guess even slave laborers get bored.

I fiddled around with it and managed to get it sort of in tune with slide manipulation. I eventually found a Bb/C Chinese trumpet of the same bore size and cut the C slides down enough. Was not a great player in any universe, and it is tarnishing away at the back of my closet.

I guess if you liked flats that much better than sharps, just think of it as a C# trumpet, and play down a half step. Tunes in E would then be in Eb, etc. But I seriously doubt it will catch on!
_________________
huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.

[kehaulani]

(General comment and not aimed at the preceding post.)

If it's THAT big a problem and you don't want to do the work, just get a C Trumpet.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Denny Schreffler]

Most “modern” B-flat tpts (and cornets) were built as B-flat/A instruments. The main tuning slide didn’t have to be designed to be that long for any other purpose. In manufacturer’s price lists in the early and mid- 20th Century, it was sometimes specified, but seems to have been nearly always the case even if not.

In Bach’s 1925 price list, Stradivarius “Bb TRUMPETS AND CORNETS (Mezzo Soprano)” have the option of a, “Draw-out quick-change to ‘A’ attachment for trumpet supplied free only when ordered with instrument – before the instrument is lacquered.” This would have been just some kind of stop at the “A” tuning. So, the instrument was designed to be played in “A” and B-flat.

—Denny

[Dale Proctor]

Work smarter, not harder...


_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[x9ret]

[Brad361]