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Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces


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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:35 am    Post subject: Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces Reply with quote

I posted this before but maybe its still food for thought?



Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23
:41:49 EDT
From: JLindem96@aol.com
Subject: [TPIN] Jens Lindemann mouthpiece

I have received many e-mails from TPIN members who were at the ITG conference asking the classic "what-mouthpiece-do-you-use" question. I thought I would take this opportunity to give you my personal theory on mouthpieces.

I believe that far too many trumpet players use mouthpieces that are basically too big. IMHO, going larger than a Bach 3C or the Yamaha/Schilke equivalent 14c4 or smaller than a Bach 7C or Yamaha/Schilke 11 should be considered 'specialized' equipment.

We seem to have no shortage of trumpet players out there who would say that very small mouthpieces are considered 'cheaters'. Have you ever seen a Bill Chase mouthpiece? It is about as small as you can possibly get and it served him very well for the type of playing he did. Could he have done that on a larger mouthpiece? Of course, but specialized lead players are artists in their own right. Those who do it for a living are very cognizant of what they are hired to do in the most efficient manner possible so that they can continue to do it for as long possible!

True lead players are also extremely rare. Think about how many people in your own community would be considered monster lead players...specifically the so-called 'screech' players. You would probably come up with a relatively small number in any given city. I can also virtually guarantee you that those inviduals play on more 'specialized' equipment that probably falls out of a standard industry medium. In my opinion, you should only mess around with their type of equipment if you were interested in the type of air velocity that they themselves use for their specific job. Remember though that everything comes with a price. Extremely small, shallow mouthpieces simply do not resonate that well in a section. They may have good 'cutting' projection but try playing softly with a good attack...very risky. Of course, if you never have to play softly with a good sound then you should consider yourself a true specialist...go for it!

By the same token, the great orchestral players use equipment that would hover around a Bach 1 1/2 or 1C or the Yamaha/Schilke equivalent 16-18C4. These individuals should also be considered 'specialists' because they are. Playing in an orchestra requires the ability to blend first and foremost and occasionally lead the entire brass section. But even then, the best players are simply riding on top of overtones being laid down by the rest of the section. They are not trying to 'cut' through in the way that commercial trumpet players might want to sizzle over a big band or rock group.

I just finished playing with the Summit Brass this week. Allen Vizzutti, Allan Dean and David Hickman were also in the trumpet section. Playing with them was AMAZINGLY easy because everyone blended and played in tune and everyone occasionally had the opportunity to lead the section and lay down a style that the others would follow. When the section is in tune and balanced, it is very simple to play for long periods of time without feeling true fatigue.

It is my understanding that the great Bud Herseth began his career on something like a Bach 7C and only switched to a larger mouthpiece (Bach 1X...made for him) after his car accident so that there was greater sensation in his nerve-damaged lips. Obviously, Bud Herseth is one of the greatest orchestral players ever but his own switch to a large mouthpiece (largest ever at the time) was based on an extreme situation for a highly specialized job. However, since most classical players wanted to sound like him, many made the same switch without thinking of the potential ramifications. Specifically, working too hard to find the sweet spot...more on that later. Bud Herseth is one the most efficient players of all time and he was efficient on a Bach 7C for a long period.

Thus, the point of my ramble (I think I'm jet-lagged). EFFICIENCY!!! After starting on a Bach 7C like many of you out there, I graduated to bigger equipment...all the way to a Bach 1 1/4, 24 throat, Schmidt backbore. I love stats...it clears the room of everyone except trumpet players. So, now that we are alone, I can tell you about my realization. Unless I wanted to be Bill Chase, there was little point in playing through a pin hole. By the same token, it also seemed reasonably logical that unless I was recovering from nerve damage and needed to feel more of my lips so that I could play for Fritz Reiner in Chicago, I probably wouldn't need a 1X either.

Allen Vizzutti and I have discussed this often over the years and the simple fact is this, in order to play efficently you must be in the sweet spot of a mouthpiece. A large mouthpiece has a bigger sweet spot and, as with oversized tennis racquets and golf clubs, it helps compensate for our very human ability to miss the centre of the note more often than not. To accomplish the same goal on a smaller mouthpiece you MUST be more efficient or it will back up on you. I describe backing up as basically trying to overpower the sweet spot.

Currently, I am playing a GR mouthpiece which Gary Radtke made especially for me. This will be available very soon (complete with my website on it...the benefits of customization!). For years before that, my own equipment was made for me by a mouthpiece maker in Japan who worked for Yamaha. I don't know the exact dimensions but they are somewhere between a Bach 5-7 C or a Yamaha/Schilke 11. Never measured the throat or the backbore and I didn't really care because it basically got me to where I needed to be. I could pretty much do everything I needed to do in any register I needed to play in with that mouthpiece. Could it have been a more perfect mouthpiece? Of course! Will I obsess about trying to find an elusive solution? Of course not! The answer is fluid anyway due to the fact that my body, lips, dental structure, and vital capacity will always be changing naturally due to the aging process that everyone of us is undergoing as I write this. Now, if your thing happens to be the quest for the perfect mouthpiece, then at least be honest with yourself, it is the chase that you are into and not the solution.

The bottom line is this (again, IMHO) the name of the game is efficiency and flexibility and the best solution for an all-around game is middle of the road equipment coupled with focused, intelligent practise. Have fun experimenting but don't let it be the answer to your problems!

Jens Lindemann
www.trumpetsolo.com
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trickg
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a great writeup. I wish more trumpet players would look at things like that.

I've never been one for extremes. I messed with bigger mouthpieces for a time - a Bach 1.25 C was as big as I went. I also have done a lot of playing on a smaller mouthpiece - first a Schilke 14A4a, then a A4A4, and then later I switched to a Warburton 4SVW on a KT backbore - smaller and tighter in some ways, but overall it was a switch in efficiency that worked.

As of late I'm on a 3C, but not a Bach - the one that seems to work for me with the horn I'm on is the Austin Custom Brass 3C. This is a recent switch from the Marcinkiewicz #2 I used for a long time. It just seems a bit sweeter, rounder, and a bit more focused. It's also a more open sound in my upper register.

For me it has always boiled down to what works the best to keep me in the middle of the road. I'm clearly not of the ability or pedigree of Jens Lindemann, but what he's saying makes sense when compared to my own experiences.
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hibidogrulez
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces Reply with quote

Manuel de los Campos wrote:
I posted this before but maybe its still food for thought?

I dunno. Is it still? It’s a great writeup and it makes a lot of sense, but I figured it’d be relatively common knowledge by now. Still, can’t hurt to repeat it I suppose.

And I’m not sure how to apply it to my own situation if I’m honest. I use different mouthpieces to (help) create specific sounds/timbres rather than to actually be able to play or blend. I totally agree that a mouthpiece shouldn’t be seen as a ‘quick fix’ for the inabilities of the player, but I feel there’s more to mouthpiece selection than that.

Then again, I’m no pro so what do I know.
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest mistake I ever made was switching to a Bach 1 1/4C.
The best decision I ever made was switching to Warburton 5M
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces Reply with quote

hibidogrulez wrote:
Manuel de los Campos wrote:
I posted this before but maybe its still food for thought?

I dunno. Is it still? It’s a great writeup and it makes a lot of sense, but I figured it’d be relatively common knowledge by now. Still, can’t hurt to repeat it I suppose.

And I’m not sure how to apply it to my own situation if I’m honest. I use different mouthpieces to (help) create specific sounds/timbres rather than to actually be able to play or blend. I totally agree that a mouthpiece shouldn’t be seen as a ‘quick fix’ for the inabilities of the player, but I feel there’s more to mouthpiece selection than that.

Then again, I’m no pro so what do I know.

One thing we know for certain is that once a trumpet player learns about the world of mouthpieces (which usually comes well before they learn world of different trumpets for different things) they get obsessed over gear thinking there will be a magic mouthpiece that will solve all of their playing issues - everything from range to tone. It goes hand-in-hand with them finding out that certain players used certain mouthpieces:

Bill Chase - Schilke 6A4a
Maynard Ferguson - too many to list, but lots of different things including Jet Tone
Bud Herseth - I've heard lots of different things here - 1X, 1C, 1B, Straight 1, adjusted throat, etc. This writeup from Jens is the first I've heard that it was a 1X.
Phil Smith - Bach 1C
Forrest Buchtel - Schilke 14A4a
etc.

The logic then follows that if they want to sound like those players then they need to play on the equipment those players use. SO many players get wrapped up in that idea too - that they need specific equipment to sound like their favorite player. Drummers are notorious for this too, but it's much more about how the player hits the drums than the drums or sticks themselves.

So yeah, this is still relevant because as long as there are young, up-and-coming players, there will always be a fruitless quest for equipment to solve issues that need to first be addressed in the practice room.
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces Reply with quote

trickg wrote:


So yeah, this is still relevant because as long as there are young, up-and-coming players, there will always be a fruitless quest for equipment to solve issues that need to first be addressed in the practice room.


Very well said mister
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JWG
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quick comment on Jens's opinion:

Jens does not mention body/head/lip size. In general if your genetics bestow you with above-average height, skull size, and/or lip size, larger equipment will fit you better.

Example 1: My son and I both stand 5'10" but have above-average skull sizes (measured by circumference and height/width). Thus, our lips, while proportional to our skulls, are larger than average. Thus, a Bach 1.5 rim works great for us.

Example 2: My daughter, while standing a very average 5'4" with a proportionally-sized skull, has large/full lips, and she also plays a 1.5 rim comfortably. She dabbled with a 3 rim for a while before returning to a 1.5.

In inches, a 3 rim is .642 while a 1.5 is .669—a difference of .028 inches.
In millimeters, a 3 rim is 16.3 while a 1.5 is 17—a difference of 0.7 mm.
Set your (imperial system or metric system) calipers to this measurement, and you will see it's quite small.

Additionally, it seems silly to say anything larger than a 3 rim becomes "specialized equipment." A 1.5 rim is less than 4.3% wider than a 3 rim, and such a difference stands well within the percentage variations in the human form that vary by more than 25% even for people of the same height.

So, choose a mouthpiece rim diameter initially based on your biology, just judge the size of your lips compared to average and start your mouthpiece search from there. If you have fuller or larger lips than average, you will gravitate toward larger diameter mouthpieces as in your comfort zone. If you have thinner or smaller than average lips, you will gravitate toward smaller diameter mouthpieces as in your comfort zone. After that, you will then choose alpha angles, cup depth and shape, throat size, and finally backbore shape to compliment the needs of your music.

In simple terms, choosing a mouthpiece rim size analogizes to choosing a "shoe size": you need to know the size of your foot first; after that, you can choose the right footwear, whether for everyday activities like walking or specialist activities like running, hiking, sprinting, basketball, skiing, biking, et cetera, and then even go "wild" with different styles and colors.

Just avoid going wild like Imelda Marcos, unless you can find some of Yamashita's missing treasure.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does that relate to hose who have normal-sized features but use disproportionately smaller-ratio equipment? I've known some killer players who play on small mouthpieces and, as the saying goes, "Doesn't hurt them none"?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWG, I've known some players over the years with very large, fleshy lips - larger than mine - who sound great on mouthpieces smaller than what I use.

Jens specifically mentioned Bill Chase using a 6A4a - that's super small. A side by side comparison with you, the 6A4a for Bill was likely much smaller than the 1.5C is for you.

I think Jens was speaking in terms of generalities - I know that in my experience, looking back, the 1.5C and 1.25C mouthpieces I tried to use were way too big for me. For me. YMMV.

The overarching theme of his post was to say that a player shouldn't chase a size simply because someone else was using it, but rather they should find the piece that works for them to get them in the middle of their sound, and that's "usually" going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 3C to 7C. Clearly there are exceptions based on the repertoire and sound a person is trying to get. The last I knew, folks doing commercial/studio work tend to play on smaller mouthpieces to facilitate upper register brilliance and endurance.

For you and your family, larger seems to be where you need to be. You guys are likely an exception to the rule, especially since you claim to have oversized craniums compared to the rest of us "normal" folks.
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Vin DiBona
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am never ceased to be amazed at what gets written down in this forum.

Herseth had told Bach his issue after the accident. Bach sent him a 1, a 1C, and a 1 1/4C. Herseth found them fine, but a little too tight. Bach made him a screw rim - different from the now 1X rim and sent him a 1 cup, B cup, and C cup. Bach slightly altered the backbore on each one and the rest is history.

Body size has little to do with mouthpiece selection. It is up to the individual players to find what works with their physiology. Thick lips do not immediately call for wider mouthpieces.

Larger mouthpieces require, nay demand, rigorous practice or you will not be able to play them for extended periods. The people who make this mistake are amateurs who get enamored with the sound, but find they have poor range and endurance.

Bach mouthpiece sizes are notoriously off. A 1C is usually measured a 17.2 mm. A 1 1/2C is usually at 17mm. A 3C is usually measured at 16.7 or 16.8mm, not the 16.42 as stated. the 1 1/2 and 3C feel different because of the cup and rim shape, but are virtually the same size.

Many manufactures find that 7Cs measure at 16.5mm, which makes it bigger than what Bach says about a 3C.

Players who get their info only from this site are in for a rude awakening.
Most here (but not all) are hacks and amateurs who spend more time writing dozens of posts a week instead of actually practicing or playing somewhere.

There is a world of info about mouthpieces on the web. Manufacturers who actually know a thing or two share their knowledge.
Jens was kind enough to make a post that should make sense to basically everyone reading it. Still, there is doubt from folks who will never have experience, skills, and flat out knowledge.
R. Tomasek
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hibidogrulez
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:19 am    Post subject: Re: Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
So yeah, this is still relevant because as long as there are young, up-and-coming players, there will always be a fruitless quest for equipment to solve issues that need to first be addressed in the practice room.

Agreed, but not all trumpet players are like that . Most of the trumpet players I currently play with are actually very conservative and reluctant to try something new. In fact, that very post would confirm to their minds that they’re simply never gonna be any better and remain stuck in their ways (since ‘trying new things/gear is pointless’ and ‘the practice room isn’t yielding results beyond where they are right now’). I know I used to be like that…
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
I am never ceased to be amazed at what gets written down in this forum.

Herseth had told Bach his issue after the accident. Bach sent him a 1, a 1C, and a 1 1/4C. Herseth found them fine, but a little too tight. Bach made him a screw rim - different from the now 1X rim and sent him a 1 cup, B cup, and C cup. Bach slightly altered the backbore on each one and the rest is history.

Body size has little to do with mouthpiece selection. It is up to the individual players to find what works with their physiology. Thick lips do not immediately call for wider mouthpieces.

Larger mouthpieces require, nay demand, rigorous practice or you will not be able to play them for extended periods. The people who make this mistake are amateurs who get enamored with the sound, but find they have poor range and endurance.

Bach mouthpiece sizes are notoriously off. A 1C is usually measured a 17.2 mm. A 1 1/2C is usually at 17mm. A 3C is usually measured at 16.7 or 16.8mm, not the 16.42 as stated. the 1 1/2 and 3C feel different because of the cup and rim shape, but are virtually the same size.

Many manufactures find that 7Cs measure at 16.5mm, which makes it bigger than what Bach says about a 3C.

Players who get their info only from this site are in for a rude awakening.
Most here (but not all) are hacks and amateurs who spend more time writing dozens of posts a week instead of actually practicing or playing somewhere.

There is a world of info about mouthpieces on the web. Manufacturers who actually know a thing or two share their knowledge.
Jens was kind enough to make a post that should make sense to basically everyone reading it. Still, there is doubt from folks who will never have experience, skills, and flat out knowledge.
R. Tomasek


We are all the same but different. Can´t help wondering what would have come out if I had consulted someone like Gary Ratke when I bought my first trumpet, the King. The dealer looked at me and said: "this mouthpiece will go well along with the trumpet. A Vincent Bach 1 1/4 C year 1970. So I used this mpc for anything, lead and concert band, cornet variant for Brass band. Never ever had any thoughts what so ever about my choices. They served me very well. Excellently in fact.Adequate range and very good endurance. Joining the TH I found out that these mpc:s had "Extra large cup diameter for well trained symphony, opera, and solo trumpeters". Me - an amateur (although diligently practicing all my life, weird in itself).
The last 20 years or so variants of Schilke 14, nicer rim. Becoming older has made me practice in a more efficient way, and for a longer time. Take it or leave it!
How to explain? Joining the TH also prompted me to start my Safari. I came up with some very good mouthpieces (Stork).
Undoubtedly some embouchures florish with "custom made" properties, some are detrimental (I can´t stand flat rims).
But often I find that there is a search for the Holy Grail. There is no such thing. Use mpc:s that provides the sound/flexibility etc. etc. you want. And practice in a clever way. This is the sine non qua.
Find out what´s best for you.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
I am never ceased to be amazed at what gets written down in this forum.

Herseth had told Bach his issue after the accident. Bach sent him a 1, a 1C, and a 1 1/4C. Herseth found them fine, but a little too tight. Bach made him a screw rim - different from the now 1X rim and sent him a 1 cup, B cup, and C cup. Bach slightly altered the backbore on each one and the rest is history.
.
.
.

Bach mouthpiece sizes are notoriously off. A 1C is usually measured a 17.2 mm. A 1 1/2C is usually at 17mm. A 3C is usually measured at 16.7 or 16.8mm, not the 16.42 as stated. the 1 1/2 and 3C feel different because of the cup and rim shape, but are virtually the same size.

Many manufactures find that 7Cs measure at 16.5mm, which makes it bigger than what Bach says about a 3C.

Players who get their info only from this site are in for a rude awakening.
Most here (but not all) are hacks and amateurs who spend more time writing dozens of posts a week instead of actually practicing or playing somewhere.

There is a world of info about mouthpieces on the web. Manufacturers who actually know a thing or two share their knowledge.
Jens was kind enough to make a post that should make sense to basically everyone reading it. Still, there is doubt from folks who will never have experience, skills, and flat out knowledge.
R. Tomasek

I never knew any specifics about the size of mouthpiece Bud Herseth used -just the oft-repeated lore that gets bandied about. I knew he moved to a larger mouthpiece to accommodate the injury to his lip(s) from the car accident and that it was a "1-something-or-other," which is what spurred the movement towards larger equipment by scads of players trying to emulate his sound. I appreciate the clarity from your post - not sure how or where you got that information, but it's definitely more descriptive and with a better sense of authority than anything I've read about it prior.

Regarding mouthpiece sizes, I recently received a 7C mouthpiece with the Brasspire Unicorn C trumpet I purchased. I didn't really play on it much - I've tentatively matched this horn with an ACB 3B - but I can say that this 7C feels bigger than any other 7C I currently have, one of which is a late 60s/early 70s Bach 7C. This one actually feels close to the 3Cs I have.

Mouthpiece labeling and sizing is kind of a funny thing because as small as those differences in measurement may be, they can have a drastic effect on how a mouthpiece feels. I currently have several "3C" mouthpieces:

Bach -- I don't care for the feel of the rim on this one - it's the worst of the bunch.
ACB --My current favorite of the bunch and what I'm currently using. Comfortable rim, rounder sound, good focus.
Curry -- Comfortable, but bright.
Pickett -- Came with the Shires Model B - feels a little tighter, but has a comfortable rim.
Jupiter XO -- Came with my Jupiter 1600i. This one works great as a marching mouthpiece with the National Guard Band. The way the rim is shaped, it allows for the additional pressure when marching and bobbling along without cutting off circulation, and it also stays put and I have good sound and accuracy with it. I don't prefer it otherwise.

ALL of them feel, play, focus, and sound different. At least 3 of them are supposed to be based on a Mount Vernon 3C.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hibidogrulez wrote:
Agreed, but not all trumpet players are like that . Most of the trumpet players I currently play with are actually very conservative and reluctant to try something new. In fact, that very post would confirm to their minds that they’re simply never gonna be any better and remain stuck in their ways (since ‘trying new things/gear is pointless’ and ‘the practice room isn’t yielding results beyond where they are right now’). I know I used to be like that…

I think it depends on what subculture a player identifies with, along with how good they are as a player. When I was a young Army trumpet player, and much more classically oriented than what I became later, I used to pride myself on only using 1 trumpet and 1 mouthpiece for everything. My setup was a "vanillia" Bach Strad ML 37/w standard tuning slide configuration and a Marcinkiewicz #2.

With that being said, I also spent 5-7 hours on many days with the horn in my hands - maybe not actively playing all of that time but between morning concert band rehearsal, afternoon big band rehearsal or BQ rehearsal, and an hour or two practicing in the evening, I had finely tuned myself to that specific setup. I was also predominately playing section parts - 2nd or 3rd in concert band, 3rd or 4th in the big band, and 2nd in the BQ.

It was only when I started playing in the Latin band in my late 20s where I discovered that one-size-fits-all doesn't always work, and I moved toward a mouthpiece that would help facilitate a brighter sound and promote better endurance.

I'm still not a gear hound - I stick to one setup as much as possible and try to correct whatever deficiencies I have the practice room, but I'm also aware of how certain horn/mouthpiece combinations work better for certain genres than others.

Bringing this back to the subject of the thread, my goal is to find something where I feel like I'm playing focused, centered, and with the appropriate sound for the playing I'm doing, generally speaking. When I switched to the Shires Model B from the Jupiter 1600i, once I'd acclimated to the horn, I felt that an adjustment was necessary for the mouthpiece as well, and it's only been recently that I settled on the ACB 3C.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skull size?

The dif between a 1.5c and a 3c is only .010 inches. That is 2 percent. Generally speaking what we feel as a “size” is .010, or two percent.
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Vin DiBona
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Joined: 24 Dec 2003
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Location: OHare area

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The info on Herseth's mouthpieces comes from interviews with Herseth himself in various publications and this interview with Scott Laskey shortly before Scott passed. Scott had plans on making direct copies of Herseth's mouthpieces. Sadly, he passed before he could do so.
https://vimeo.com/288007410
I have a friend and mentor, John Cvejanovich who was a student of Herseth's and was a frequent section member or extra in the CSO. John also knew what Bud had in his horns. John is also on 6 or 7 recordings with them as well. The last one being on the 4th C trumpet part in Solti's The Rite of Spring.
Being a Chicagoland native, over the years I've had the distinct pleasure of performing with some of the very best musicians around. I've learned a great deal about who used (s) what gear and why.
Smoke, mirrors, and BS will not get you anywhere in Chicago.
Many of them will tweak something in their gear but they almost always are not making a radical change.
I hope this clarifies some issues.

Here is an interview with my friend and mentor, John Cvejanovich.
He was 81 when this was made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnE_1Wd-DTc

R. Tomasek


Last edited by Vin DiBona on Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Aspeyrer
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Joined: 18 Nov 2019
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least two of the current Chicago symphony members do/did some serious “tweeqing”
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Hawai'i - Texas

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
I am never ceased to be amazed at what gets written down in this forum.

Players who get their info only from this site are in for a rude awakening.
Most here (but not all) are hacks and amateurs who spend more time writing dozens of posts a week instead of actually practicing or playing somewhere.


R. Tomasek - The old Schilke brochures describe the Model H (for "Herseth", present #11) as a copy of Herseth's pre-accident Bach 7.

In light of your preceding post, you may be one of our best sources to put this to rest, at last. Is this true or just more inaccurate info?

Thanks.
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
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Location: Terre Haute, IN USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
I am never ceased to be amazed at what gets written down in this forum.

So am I - though I suspect we might not agree on which things are amazing.

Vin DiBona wrote:

Body size has little to do with mouthpiece selection.

You might be right - but I am unaware of any significant study being done on that. Right now, all we have are personal observations. Body size may be correlated with other things related to trumpet playing - jaw size, musculature, facial tissue thickness ... I don't know - who would you ask - a forensic anthropologist? That's the nice thing about TH - it's not just a website populated by professional trumpet players but by many who, while they may be considered amateur musicians, are not amateurs in their "day jobs". Thus you will get the perspectives of professionals from other disciplines to many of the problems presented.

Vin DiBona wrote:

Larger mouthpieces require, nay demand, rigorous practice or you will not be able to play them for extended periods. The people who make this mistake are amateurs who get enamored with the sound, but find they have poor range and endurance.


I'm sure you are accurately recounting your observations. My observation is that ALL mouthpieces require "rigorous practice or you will not be able to play them for extended periods". If a player has poor endurance and range - reducing the ID of the mouthpiece is not an automatic fix. So many other factors. There really is no Free Lunch in trumpet playing- certainly not for those of us who are only modestly talented.

Vin DiBona wrote:

Players who get their info only from this site are in for a rude awakening.


I doubt if there are that many on TH who are single sourcers. If nothing else, look up - what manufacturer's add is running above under the Forum tab? Posters I have encountered provide numerous links to the outside. Even when young players ask "what mouthpiece should I play on" the overwhelming number of responses are reasonable, suggest outside sources and frequently end with "get a teacher".

Vin DiBona wrote:

Most here (but not all) are hacks and amateurs who spend more time writing dozens of posts a week instead of actually practicing or playing somewhere.


I'm trying to decide if I'm a "hack" - well I guess at my age I am kind of worn out. Amateur ? Do I engage in music as a pastime rather than as a profession? Well - I have a degree in brass but I haven't taught a trumpet lesson for 40 years and I seldom play for money - so - yes I must be an amateur. I should point out that not all of us have sound proof practice rooms available at this time of night - so this is something to do that doesn't violate condo association rules.
===
I'm sorry you share Lens' opinion of the TrumpetHerald contents - I reviewed his interview with Pickett Brass May 14, 2020 1:04:20 to 1:04:57. (See - we do get our information from multiple sources.)
===
I remember a ITG many years ago - a couple of fellow hacks and amateurs and myself found ourselves sitting in the auditorium balcony with Bobby Shew and Allen Vizutti. (No - I don't have them on my speed dial.) They could have ignored us - but they didn't. They treated us as what we all were - "we few, we happy few" who play trumpet (true - at different levels) and who enjoy the playing of other trumpeters.

That's pretty much who we are at TH.

Vin DiBona wrote:

There is a world of info about mouthpieces on the web. Manufacturers who actually know a thing or two share their knowledge.


I agree the manufacturers know a thing or two. But you really have to already know a thing or two before you can evaluate the products they offer. The newbie could find themselves with a gold plated annealed brass mouthpiece with a double venturi #15 throat and stepped backbore - to give it a "scintillating" sound. (I've loved that word ever since I first read it in the Bach mouthpiece catalog.)
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adagiotrumpet
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Joined: 31 May 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:

Most here (but not all) are hacks and amateurs who spend more time writing dozens of posts a week instead of actually practicing or playing somewhere.
R. Tomasek


Personally, there is much of what is posted on TH that I disagree with, as many of my previous posts have indicated. But that doesn't make me right and all those I disagree with wrong.

However, I am going to take issue with a statement that disparages a majority of those who contribute to this forum. Claiming that "Most here (but not all) are hacks and amateurs..." is both nasty and demeaning. Although I don't have a scientific poll to back this up, I think most of us would agree that this forum has a large number of non-professional players. Frankly, I encourage this. Following the forum can be a valuable learning experience. I know it has been for me, and I have been playing professionally for almost 50 years, since I was 18.

Having students and non-professional adults follow and contribute here is tantamount to having the good fortune to play in a professional rehearsal band at the Musician's Union while still in high school. That's what I was fortunate enough to do and I was able to have my son do the same thing while he was still in high school. He currently plays professionally also. Being able to "mix it up" with pros, whether on a forum or in a rehearsal band provides a unique educational experience.

Disparaging the non-professionals here might well cause some to no longer follow or participate. It also sends a message that these "hacks and amateurs" are not welcome here.

Everybody should be welcome here, even those that disparage "most but not all".


Last edited by adagiotrumpet on Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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