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Conn 86A Cornet info?



 
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andrewvied
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Joined: 11 Sep 2021
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:18 pm    Post subject: Conn 86A Cornet info? Reply with quote

I picked up the Conn 86A that was on eBay recently, for what seemed like a pretty good deal (~$150 shipped). I really wanted to get a cornet and liked the unique look of the 80A-types. The horn itself is in really good shape given that it's around 100 years old, with a nice gold wash on the inside of the bell and a only a couple minor dents/chips in the silver plate.

I haven't found a lot of info online about the 86A, other than the Conn Loyalist site which just basically mentions that it's a small-bore variant of the 80A that had a limited production run just after WW1. I understand it takes a short-shank cornet mouthpiece (a Conn Wonder MP came with the horn), though I didn't notice a huge intonation problem using a more modern MP. For a small-bore horn it didn't feel particularly stuffy to me. I'll have to scour the online market for another appropriate MP or two just to find the right feel (I usually play a 1.5C on my trumpets).

Any other thoughts or observations from the cornet/collector crowd?
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chef8489
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both Yamaha and Austin custom brass make short shank mouthpieces. Curry makes the vc line as well.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Timeline of Trumpets, page 114:

“As the Victor cornets predated Conn’s numbering scheme, the original .484” bore models became the 6A and 7A in 1921 (LP-only and HP/LP respectively). In 1922, 4A and 5A .422” bore versions were added. By 1924, 6A and 7A became 80A and 81A, while 4A and 5A became 90A and 91A. Small bore versions without the slide mechanism, dubbed 92A and 93A, and a full set of .438” bore 84/85/86/87-A versions were similarly offered. In mid-1926, the 90A became 4A again with 91A discontinued, while 92A and 93A became 6A and 7A. With the deepening of the Great Depression, this shrank to just the 80A and the 4A in 1931. By 1941, only the 80A remained, and the slide mechanism was no longer a part of the design.”

(The Victor New Wonder Cornet had debuted in 1914)
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chef8489 wrote:
Both Yamaha and Austin custom brass make short shank mouthpieces. Curry makes the vc line as well.

I have an early 80A and am pretty sure that the shank requirement is quite different than that of any of the modern pieces, Yamaha or otherwise. I know Curry offers a special shank that is correct for the old Conn horns.
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andrewvied
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tried using a modern Bach MP in the horn and didn't notice any obvious intonation issues. I went ahead and ordered a Yamaha short shank MP to see how that fits and works out.

I noticed there's an empty space within the case (which is in really good overall shape for its age, but that's another story altogether) where something would've been stored--I'm presuming a mute of some sort. The space isn't very big, about 6" x 2" based on the contours of the case. Did these horns include some sort of mute, or were mutes from this time period small enough to fit in this case? I've attached a marked-up photo showing where the empty space is.

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Uberopa
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
I have an Olds case with a similar slot. It was the space for the included lyre. In the pic it looks as if your lyre doesnt have a slot and is just loose in the case. Conn trumpets and cornets often came with a short straight mute often referred to as a door knob mute. The size of the slot in your case isnt big enough for one of these mutes so I think thas where your lyre goes. My $.02
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giakara
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 81A made in 1921 and I don't have any problems with the long shank mpcs i use , most of them are vintage like Purviance, Selmer, Parduba etc.

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huntman10
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 1927 80A Victou with the A pull mechanism, and a contemporary mute from Conn fits perfectly in that spot. 👌
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huntman10
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Dave_3
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue with early, Conn short shank mouthpieces, is not limited to length. There is also the issue of proper taper and shank diameter, of the mouthpiece. If the taper of the mouthpiece and receiver do not match, then you may end up reaming out the receiver.

I believe that Curry does offer the proper mouthpieces (correct length and taper) for vintage Conn cornets.

A short article from the Conn Loyalist.

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnArticle34.html
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