unable to change pitch

[krell1960]

[chucalim]

yes, I watched it, and I tried the whole exercice from scratch, following the steps on the video. Only C goes out, nothing more without putting so much energy.
I gave my wife the instrument today, with some advice I received day one : she naturally played a G, and a few minutes later lower C and 3rd space C... She explained to me that she had the feeling that she may change something or adapt in a way, but she can't tell me what she does.

Here a recording of me in which you will see that I am not so relax when I tried to get to G. But if I don't do this, nothing gets out.
And you must understand that : when I try G, if I stay relax, singing in my head the note, playing the note on the piano, straight back on the chair, etc... nothing happens, because, basically nothing changes in my mouth or throat or lips or whatever.
The trumpet is a yamaha 2330, and the MP Bach 1 1/2 C, for what it's worth.

https://youtu.be/xo1loB5g5vU

[JayKosta]

In Billy B's video, I believe he recommends setting the lips by pronouncing 'mom' (American style) - and that is fine.

I suggest that after doing the 'mom' bit, you add a little tension (while keeping the 'mom' setting) to your lips by positioning them as if you were going to say 'pee' with tightened lips - do not 'pout' your lips outward, the 'pee' should give a slight feeling of tension to the lip tissue.

By adjusting the pitch that the 'pee' sound would have, you might be able to adjust the pitch that you play on the trumpet - or just the leadpipe, as in the Bill B video.

Perhaps have your wife try the 'pee' method - if might be different for her, but it might help her describe what she feels.
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[steve0930]

BonSoir!

Just watched your video - I admire you for posting that - loads of experts in this forum. Wilktone is a great resource here - and hopefully now that you have posted a video he will come back to you.

I am like you in in that I started the trumpet late, in my case aged 53, 4.9 years ago. Before that my main hobby was Running/Triathlons.
I have no musical experience and I am self taught. (correction - I think i have 100+ teachers on the internet, you tube , this forum etc) I love learning the trumpet and play it 2 to 4 hours a day - but usually not more than 10/15 minutes at a time.

I am starting to feel like I am "on the way" now as a Player.. (c above the staff now starting to feel easy)

So LOTS OF PEOPLE with heaps more expertise and experience than me but my advice./ things I wish I had worked out quicker!

MORE EFFORT is never the answer (for Me!) - I used to blow until red in the face - you are not making this mistake - on the video you look very relaxed and calm - despite these frustrations - you're more mature than me in this respect!) If you feel tired take a break. you mention "abs" but I was playng c above staff to day and didn't think at all about compression - I'm sure I could get kicked out of any Trumpet school for writing that but c'est vrai! Having said that the cheeks of my bottom are compressed together when I play.

TINY imperceptible changes can make a difference. This might just be a "thought" change. So to give you an example - I might be playing an e in the staff - then just imagine the note moving from inside my mouth to the top of my head and a g top of the staff would pop out - I didn't consciously change anything. It take me about 2 years learning to understand how minute/imperceptibly small adjustments need to be. Changing pitch gets a lot easier as you get higher (notes closer together) so I just might think about my air passing under top teeth and the pitch will change..)

FORGET "blowing" all you need to do is excite the air already in the trumpet.
Again it took me 2 or 3 years to get that. (you have read to the opposite here but for me the whole concept of blowing balloons was a step in the wrong direction..)
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I'm not sure if a trumpet player ever stops experimenting but a couple of things you could try right now.

1. Play with as closed an embouchure as you can, whilst staying relaxed. Aim to put as much of both lips into you mouthpiece as possible.
(On your video do I notice you lips seperating a touch as they kiss the mouthpiece)

or 2. Try rolling in the lips (the way you wife does when she puts on lip stick)

3 Without a mouthpiece place lips together and then see how you need to move you lips to change the air stream so that you feel it on your nose and then on your chin - now try the same with the trumpet. (received wisdom is that one lip needs to be more dominant but this is Wilktone's bread and butter)

4 Your throat area - Don't try and understand how it does it but imagine, as you play, something is happening at the back of your mouth/throat area to change pitch - this might be the idea of an elevator /lift going up and down. Experiment - it might be when you though the lift was going down the pitch went up..
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In the first two years I spent too much time worrying about "Air" "Tongue arch" "Air speed" I have nothing to back this up but from the start I should have worked out that tiny tiny stress changes on your face, muscles around your mouth, wrinkling your nose, jaw position, moving your eye brows can help you change pitch.

I have never taught anyone on the trumpet but if I did I would encourage a set up when the first note they could play would be an e near the top of the staff or a g at the top of the staff. Because at this stage you have nothing to lose you can try almost anything...

Hopefully something here helps - 75% of replies here are going to be about getting a teacher but mais à la fin de la journée tu es toi-même le meilleur professeur... (editor's note - Thank you Google translate)

cheers for now and stay safe - Steve in Helsinki

PS I have but one secret from my Number 1 supporter.. she thinks I speak fluent French...
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[Billy B]

[Billy B]

[Wilktone]

Here are some preliminary thoughts for you, chucalim. It's much easier to help in person, or at least in real time over a video chat, but here are some things to try out and see how they work for you.

Do recognize that it will take some effort to play higher. Building embouchure strength and control will make it feel like it takes less energy. I don't think that you're keeping things too loose, but if you're trying to make it feel effortless you might be.

While at the beginner stage I don't think it's very helpful to try to mess around with your mouthpiece placement too much, allow your mouthpiece to go wherever it works best. The placement looks fine for how most brass musicians play best, but that's not ideal for others. It's ok to place the mouthpiece higher, lower, or even to one side.

Likewise your horn angle looks common, but you might actually play better with your horn angle a little lower or even a little higher. If bringing your lower jaw forward seems to help maybe your need to also bring your horn angle up more. If that shows promise I'd also experiment by placing the mouthpiece low enough so that there's more lower lip inside the mouthpiece than upper lip, maybe even so much that there's 80-90% lower lip inside. But again, at your stage it might not be the best thing for you to mess around with placement and horn angle too much.

Generally speaking, I think it might be better for you to think about overall embouchure form first. When you go to play higher it appears as if you're trying to do that by squeezing your lips up and down against each other. Instead, try drawing them back against the teeth more firmly. It's hard to say in the short clip you posted, but you might also be pinning your lips open somewhat with the mouthpiece. Try firming your lips up before placing the mouthpiece, then set the mouthpiece on the lips, then breathe through your nose without disturbing your embouchure formation. See if that helps you get up higher.

I would also experiment some by having your buzz your lips without the mouthpiece (very soft and mosquito-like sound) and bring the instrument up to your lips while buzzing. For some players this can be both a good exercise to develop the muscular strength and control where it should be focused (at the mouth corners and chin) and also help with learning how to draw the lips back against the teeth, rather than clamping them together.

See about a more closed jaw position. Rather than thinking of how open you can have your jaw, see how closed you can keep it and still play.

I would agree that mouthpiece buzzing isn't doing you much good, so try avoiding that and see what happens.

A lot of the above suggestions to try might be best considered as experiments. My follow through advice depend on what the results are and also watching what you're physically doing while trying them out. As I mentioned above, this is best done in real time, if possible, which is why we meet with teachers.

Keep us posted as to how things go and what advice any of us gives you that does the trick for you.

Dave
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[krell1960]

[Billy B]

[krell1960]

[percivalthehappyboy]

Just a quick thought for chucalim: What do your lips do when you place the mouthpiece? They should stay together lightly, not part. (I had that problem.)

[Robert P]

[delano]

He already did.

[Robert P]

Having watched your video I would say to begin with your situation isn't as dysfunctional as your original post would suggest given the short period you've been playing. I'd say what you're going through is pretty normal. And guess what - as you get better the horn going to continue to fight you - lol.

Welcome to the trumpet! 🎺

Your placement looks good. You *can* get to a G and even touch on a C.

To improve from where you are in that video two things that I believe need to happen - use more air and use your facial muscles differently than you're currently using them. The first is easier to get to than the second.

Play that C and open the sound more. Not blatty but bigger. Then the D, the F etc. up to the G. Play all of them with more gusto than how you're currently doing it.

When you do that, subtle changes will happen with everything you're doing - facial muscles, tongue placement, teeth opening. When playing a nice fat G try to be aware of how it feels because that's how it needs to feel to play it that way. The idea is to train yourself to get used to making the subtle changes needed.

To go from low C to G as an interval jump requires a change, I'd say when you're trying to make that interval jump besides not using enough air you're squeezing the muscles the wrong way.

Now here's the catch - the muscles do have to squeeze a bit but it has to be the right way. Miracle of nature that they are, the muscles are extremely complex and will alter in endless subtle ways. You have to find the way that gives you the sound and functionality you want to achieve.

As far as my flippant comment above about the horn fighting you - what it boils down to is that trumpet has lots of potential - you have to meet the requirements of the instrument to utilize that potential. A pro would pick up that same instrument and play the stew out of it.

Work on that sound from low C to G for now. When you really think you've got it, add an A. Then a B. Then a C. Blow, go for a solid sound.

1. Push more air
2. Do what you need to do to get a solid sound on every note

As a suggestion - if your current teacher is truly baffled by your situation you might contemplate finding another teacher.
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[kehaulani]

So, it's been (almost) a week. How's it going, chucalim? Any progression?
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[chucalim]

for now, not really...

I've got a lot of information to process, thanks to all.
My 8y old son is learning the clarinet - 1st year also, and we both have the same homework and simple sheets to play. I think for the next two weeks I will make some tests and mainly seek joy playing our two staff pieces together.
First session yesterday : lot of fun, not so much frustration ("et dis donc papa, tu t'améliores !")

Next update in two weeks !