Embouchure Problems

[Galaxysun]

Hey all, I've got a pretty rough ask today

Background : I've been playing trumpet for 4 years and have developed pretty well, I gig quite a bit and I'd say play at an intermediate level as a jazz musician.

But I've hit a really rough wall and I think it's a problem with my setup. I've discovered that my embouchure is very low down and my top lip curls over my bottom, which openly gets worse as I go up the Register. The result is mediocre endurance and a range hard capped at high A, High C has always been a matter of strain.

I believe I breath well and have very little stress in my body overall as these have been key things I've focused on. I've just noticed that no
matter how much air I push through my horn or tongue arch I use my range never seems to improve, nor my endurance.

I'm aware that self diagnosed embouchure fixes aren't the best solution but I'm just looking for solutions

Cheers

[Dayton]

Sorry you are having embouchure problems. You understand how important your set up is for successful trumpet playing, so don't leave the solution to chance. Get help from an experienced teacher. Good luck!

[trickg]

[ECLtmpt2]

[JayKosta]

1) Your lip HAS to be able to vibrate - not locked in position by too much mouthpiece pressure, or too much lip compression or stretching.
2) Mouthpiece pressure can be regulated by use of the jaw position and use of lower teeth and lip for rim pressure to find a way to achieve #1.
3) The embouchure provides resistance to air flow, it needs to be carefully adjusted to allow vibration at the desired pitch, and for air flow to be possible to activate lip vibration.

If you rely on mouthpiece pressure to 'smash' your lip flat and tight, or you stretch your lip tight and thin like a guitar string to get higher notes - that's a problem.

There is 'embouchure usage skill' that needs to be learned, high notes are not just about arm strength and tolerating lip pain.

MY views about embouchure are here -
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/Embouchure_Basic_Concepts.htm

I am not an experienced teacher, and other posters here on TH will provide their own suggestions and guidance. A good teacher or other player who can explain or demonstrate 'embouchure technique' would be very helpful.

If you watch videos, pay attention to what the player is actually DOING with their lips, cheeks, and jaw - the WORDS they use to describe it are much less important than the ACTIONS that happen.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[Billy B]

[Billy B]

[Rod Haney]

If you CANT take lessons then buy a Balanced Emb. Book by Jeff Smiley. Go thru all the exercises and learn what works for you and what doesn’t. I think this is what the author intended - for you to experiment and learn about yourself. I was already on the hunt and found what I needed quickly, but it also shows you what does not work.

You also said your top lip drapes over your lower. I think the air cannot hit your lips as they should - to the center of both lips is correct IMO. I think you may be cutting off vibration at your a and you need to cure that. Experimentation as soon as possible will serve you well IF you can’t get a good teacher
Rod

[HERMOKIWI]

If we don't analyze the full fundamental details of getting a good sound and, instead, simply say "just focus on a full sound" how is this advice different from Prof. Harold Hill's "Think System"?
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HERMOKIWI

[Billy B]

[mike ansberry]

I also would recommend in person or virtual lessons first. If that is not possible, the Balanced Embouchure book is designed to help you find your way to the correct embouchure for you.
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Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.

[Galaxysun]

The advice is a bit mixed, but I'm appreciating the severity

Another thing to mention is that jazz is my second skill, I learnt how to play from a brass band conductor and still am in the brass band. All the best old cornet players always tell you to 'breath deeper, use more air, fill the instrument up' and so on. I always thought it was fair advice as these people are pretty good, it just hadn't translated into more range or endurance. And I've noticed the best trumpeters (rapa, wynton, Sandoval etc) don't use much air at all

[royjohn]

Hello Galaxysun,
A very low embouchure sounds like a Type IV embouchure in the Reinhardt system. I would go over to the Reinhardt forum and look for a Reinhardt teacher who could give you an embouchure consult or two. If you instinctively place in that very low position, that's probably right for you. If other types of teachers start telling you to more to a higher placement, that's only going to cause you more grief. You're probably placed right for your particular embouchure and just need to learn how to work it properly.

Using a Type IV embouchure correctly could actually involve placing yet lower, or maybe just learning exactly what type of embouchure motion ("pivot") you need to use. I have the exact opposite embouchure to yours, a very high placement, but a few lessons with Dave Wilken sorted out my embouchure problems. Dave is a Type IV trombone player and there are others over at the Reinhardt forum who could help you out. Best money I ever spent.

Let us know how you make out. Good Luck!
_________________
royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[JayKosta]