How to hear overtones?

[lipshurt]

If you google fft plot (fast Fourier transform plot) you will find a nice iPhone app that shows you what is happening regarding the overtones in a sound.

Works great. A bright sound on a trumpet can have the 2nd harmonic (i guess gnat is the first overtone, one octave above the note being played) showing quite a bit louder than the fundamental (the nkte you think you are playing).

That is why some trumpet players sound like they are playing an octave higher than they are. The octave higher Overton=me is actually louder. By as much as 3db, and that is a lot. The plotting software also shows how you morph your balance of overtones as you play louder or softer, or change the intensity and resonance.

You can also compare horns, mouthpieces, backbores, throat sizes etc and see what is happening with the overtones.
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Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
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[deleted_user_687c31b]

Seems like I have a lot to work on. The advice given is much appreciated, even if I have no idea yet as to how to apply it.

[etc-etc]

Regarding Fast Fourier Transform (FFT), on Android phone you can get, for free, the Physics Toolbox Suite. It includes Spectrum Analyzer that will show in real time the frequency spectrum of the sound captured by the phone.

The issue with using the phone for sound analysis is that playing a trumpet can easily overpower the analog-digital converter (ADC) of the phone leading to digital clipping and severe distortion of the waveform as well as of FFT. For waveform, the recorded sound waves will have flat maxima and minima corresponding to 0 dB. In FFT, you would see artificial high-frequency components created by digital clipping. To avoid this, you may need to muffle the sound arriving at the microphone (play with the bell pointed into a closet full of winter clothes).

I would suggest first to sing a fixed pitch note into the microphone to get a hang of how do the waveforms and FFTs look like. Then, experiment with the trumpet.

Audacity has a static (post-recording) spectrum analyzer with many more options. Leave the sampling algorithm as default (Blackmann-Harris) and increase the sample size to 4K or more to see the peaks better resolved.

[Rod Haney]

I would suggest that you download a copy of TE Tuner, it has a spectral analyzer that will show the levelof the overtones on a graph. It shows some very interesting things that relate directly to this subject. You will see some very interesting things all of which I don’t understand. But the graph can show you when you are able to increase an overtone or reduce it by some change you’ve made. I try to see if changes increase the levels of all, some or none or reduce. It just a way to do a sound check of what’s coming out the big end.
I personally cannot hear individual overtones but I can hear a fullness to the sound when they are there and weaker tone when they aren’t. I have always assumed you wanted the overtones as high on the scale as possible.
Rod

[bixtone]

I recommend Alfred Tomatis' book 'The Ear And The Voice' for some insight into how your ability to hear overtones can affect tone production.
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Besson MEHA
NY Bach
Shires

[kehaulani]

Just a, perhaps, simplistic question, but what's wrong with using your ears and adjusting accordingly? Isn't that what music's all about?
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Rod Haney]

[kehaulani]

[Rod Haney]

Yes for those hearing aids I’ll have to buy. I certainly haven’t figured out how to adjust anything via the graphs but they show me what I cant hear behind the horn. No harm in verifying what you think you hear.
Rod

[JayKosta]

[Billy B]

[etc-etc]

Yes, as JayKosta has nicely put, it is similar to isolating pixels from the image (or even, split the pixel into R, G and B). In this case, isolate harmonics from the sound.

[Beyond16]

Overtones are why playing a Bb2 (116.5Hz) sounds different on trumpet and tuba. Here are two recordings. Both are in tune, Bb2, open fingering, on Bb instruments:

trumpet
tuba

Both have the same fundamental and overtones, though in different amounts. No surprise the tuba has a much stronger fundamental than the trumpet when playing a note this low.

[delano]

I am really surprised about all the side paths in this thread. It seems like quite a lot of people here assume that overtones are some kind of fact, that they are built in the horn. But they are not!
(Disclaimer: not all horns are capable of producing lots of overtones).

Let's say, you can't hear overtones in your sound.
Now we have two possibilities:

You can't hear them (by different causes);
You are not able to produce them. (both is also possible but makes no difference for the following).

If you can't hear them there can be physical shortcomings and then you can close this chapter. Personally I don't believe that this is something that will occur often. I am 73 now and can't hear high sounds at all. In fact I may be a little deaf (I have been a commercial rock bass guitar player for some years). But if I play in a small room the overtones can be very loud for me, sometimes unpleasant, almost painfully loud.
Another possibility is that you can't hear them because your hearing is not developed in that way. I can imagine that in case of a beginning player but I can't even imagine a teacher who is not pointing a student to resonance and overtones as a necessary goal. A good teacher will give priority to that and stop you every time you go off the path (at least I hope so).

Then possibility two: you can't produce them. If you play trumpet there will always be overtones, without them there is no sound that you could recognize as a trumpetsound. But to develop a rich, professional (Billy B.) sound with a lot of overtones so that you can hear them seperately and clear, that demands (and I use here the Bhuddist meaning of 'right') the right air flow, the right embouchure and the right playing in the sweet spot.
The bottom line is: relaxation is the trick, give the the horn the opportunity to do it. With any tension in your playing it is impossible to produce these rich overtones, impossible to create a good sound.

[Manuel de los Campos]

[deleted_user_687c31b]

[Manuel de los Campos]

[JoseLindE4]

There are absolutely other ways to achieve this without listening specifically for the overtones. Lip bends, where you bend the note down, crescendo, and come back up also work well. There's a point where the sound jumps out of the horn. Memorize that sound (which could sound harsh behind the bell).

I teach my students to listen for and focus on each overtone individually (as high as they can hear them) as a very small part of their daily practice. The act of focusing the attention this way helps them subconsciously find a full, well-projecting sound. It opens up their ears to what their instrument can sound like. It gives them a specific way to conceive of their sound beyond the more ambiguous bright/dark or clear/airy that seems to be the default. In the end, it's the color of the whole sound that matters, but listening for the small parts and amplifying them in your imagination can transform a musician over time.

I'm never thinking, "x partial needs to be y dBs higher for this phrase," but I will play a long tone and listen for the presence of each individual harmonic. I'll listen harmonic by harmonic, making them louder in my imagination as I go until it's too high for my ears. By the time I'm done, my sound is fuller and more resonant and playing is easier, which is the goal.

[mm55]

[JoseLindE4]