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Hiker74 Regular Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2016 Posts: 38 Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:01 am Post subject: Professional level trumpets to put on short list |
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Hello all
I’m now 47 and played trumpet in HS, College jazz and pep band and then briefly in church in the late 90’s, but after that I’ve not been a consistent player. My 12yr old son started playing this summer and is in 7th grade and he’s doing great. My wife has a Bach Strad 37 and I used to have a Strad 43 that I sold to fund another hobby in 2015. I’d like to pick up playing again and possibly take some lessons. I’d like to get a professional level trumpet with some versatility. I like jazz, but I also like big band and some concert.
What I’ve tried recently
*1972-1973 Bach Stradivarius 72- this was at a dealer I had some repair and rehab done for my sons student trumpet. It’s in great shape and has good action. Finish is great too. It sounds amazing and seems to feel really easy to play. I’ve heard 72’s are for soloists and for concert only. Could it be good for jazz? How much different is this than a 43 in terms of sound.
What I’d like to try…
*Give me your suggestions, but I’d like to stick with USA made or Japanese handmade Yamahas
*Brands possible: Bach Stradivarius, Shilke, Getzen, Yamaha..maybe others?
*Price range: I’d like to stay under $2000 and I’m ok with some wear. I’m more interested in a good playing used trumpet than a new one.
I’d prefer to stay away from copies like B&S and Chinese made horns.
Really interested in your thoughts.
Jon Thomas |
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deleted_user_687c31b New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:30 am Post subject: |
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If you can get a good one: Olds Recording. Very nice trumpet for jazz but can also hold its own in a classical setting, very flexible and certainly within your price range. They're well built, beautiful to look at and definitely have character but...given their age though, playtesting before buying is recommended.
But there are many other trumpets out there that might fit your taste as well. Olds is just my personal favorite . |
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Speed Veteran Member
Joined: 13 May 2015 Posts: 295 Location: Mississippi
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:39 am Post subject: |
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I really like the Bach Commercial Trumpet. My preference is the large bore, but it's not everybody's cup of tea.
Take care,
Marc Speed |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2025 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Welcome back to trumpet playing! You are at the stage where the majority of professional trumpet models will probably work "ok" or better for you as long as the instrument you choose is in good mechanical condition. As you get your chops back -- over time -- you'll have a better sense of what you want/need. Bearing that in mind, here are some horns that meet your basic criteria:
Bach: If you liked the 18043 you had that is a fine place to start. Regarding the 18072, don't worry about what other people say about it. If you find it easy to play and get a good sound it then it also could be a good starting point for you. The 18037 is the most popular option. It works for the widest range of players. If you liked your wife's, then it also could be a good starting point.
Getzen: The 907DLX might be the best place to start. The 3051 offers a wonderful warm, broad sound along the lines of the Bach 72 but may not be easy to find used.
Schilke: Consider the B1 and B5, perhaps the S32/S32HD as well. Schilke makes a wide range of terrific horns, but those models are a good place to start.
Shires: You probably won't find any of the custom models (A, B, C) in your price range, but if you do, they are well worth a look. The A horns are along the lines of the Bach 37, B along the lines of the Bach 43, and C along the lines of the Bach 72. The Q10 is a nice horn along the lines of the Bach 37, and probably what you are most likely to find used in your price range.
Yamaha: The Yamaha 9335NY is a fine trumpet, but you probably won't find one used in your price range. You are more likely to find a 8335, which is a fine horn based on the Bach 37, or one of the other 8000-series horns.
Good luck and have fun! |
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Croquethed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 612 Location: Oakville, CT
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Look into both the 900 and 907 Getzen Eternas. Great bang for the buck. Even new they're just over the 2K mark listed. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8998 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Of the new horns, I can vouch for all the ones you mentioned. All are versatile and would be appropriate for your playing styles. I'll designate specifically the ones I'm most familiar with. I would characterize them, from legit towards big band, as:
Bach (Strad180)
Schilke (B-1)
Getzen (Eterna Classic)
Yamaha (Bobby Shew Z)
But I reiterate, all can be used for what you want them for. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 623 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:30 am Post subject: |
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I grew up playing jazz and big band on a reverse leadpipe, normal weight Bach 72 bell and all was fine. My interesting observation over the years has been that the 72 bell is the favorite bell of every trumpet player who doesn't really like Bachs. Take that for what you will. But I've had mine for 25 years or so and I'm never selling it.
A suggestion that no one has made yet: Kanstul. They made around a dozen iterations of B flat trumpets, not including their rotary models, including several horns they would fare well in jazz and big band. The Connstellation near-clone 991, such as I have. The 1500 with its copper 72-ish bell. The 1500-A with its heavyset body and bronze 72-style bell. They had two or three Committee style horns, including one designed and played by Wallace Rooney. And... ever since the company unfortunately shuttered its doors in 2018 or 2019, amazing deals have been pretty easy to find on very low-mileage Kanstul horns. Their website is still active, last I looked, for more information on their types of horns. _________________ 1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB
1965 Conn Connstellation 38A cornet
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 857 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:39 am Post subject: |
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I love my Bach 72 reverse leadpipe and it works great for jazz. Everyone I know that has tried a 72 loved it and sings it praises be it a reg bell 72 or a light weight 72 bell. My current instructor and mentor Rich Willey hates bachs but loves my Bach 72 when he plays it. Most people regard the 72 bell the best bell Bach ever produced. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2438
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Professional level trumpets to put on short list |
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Hiker74 wrote: | I’d like to pick up playing again and possibly take some lessons. |
Lessons are the best investment you can make. Horns are tools. The best hammer in the world won't help if no one ever taught you the best way to drive a nail.
Hiker74 wrote: | I’d like to get a professional level trumpet with some versatility. I like jazz, but I also like big band and some concert. | So what you are saying is basically an all-around horn. The Bach 180-37 is pretty much the definition of that these days, though the Yamaha 8335s are just a slightly heavier, slightly looser version (same bell profile). Personally, I like the Calicchio R3/7 as an all-around horn, but those are exceptionally rare.
Hiker74 wrote: | It sounds amazing and seems to feel really easy to play. | THIS! This is what matters. If you feel that way, it doesn't matter if the horn says Fisher-Price on the side. If it is making it easier than others for you to sound the way you want to sound, that's all that matters.
Hiker74 wrote: | I’ve heard 72’s are for soloists and for concert only. Could it be good for jazz? How much different is this than a 43 in terms of sound. | There were several boutique horns targeted to the Jazz market built by Kanstul using the Kanstl 72 bell. These were amazing versatile horns that warmed and deepened when played that way, but lit up and filled the room when pushed. Across the Bach spectrum from 7 at the bright end to 65 at the dark end, the degree of "brightness" or "darkness" is not huge. The Bach core remains there in every case, it's just variation in the profile of overtone spectrum. 72s are among the most widely used bells.
Hiker74 wrote: | *Price range: I’d like to stay under $2000 and I’m ok with some wear. I’m more interested in a good playing used trumpet than a new one. |
This puts you in the used market. Make sure you can play test, even if its a return policy. Just because the seller says "compression is excellent" or slides move freely" . . . . . . . . . caveat emptor. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:22 am Post subject: |
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I just love threads like this. Someone asks what should be a very basic question and it gets all mucked up with a bunch of personal opinion that get projected out as "good" ideas, suggestions for vintage horn models, other conjecture....
I had this whole other longer post composed, but I'll shorten it to this: look for one of these four trumpets - IMO you really don't need to look any further, they are common enough that you should be able to find all of them used within your budget constraints, and all of them will get you where you are trying to go.
1. Bach ML 37
2. Bach ML 43
3. Yamaha 6335
4. Yamaha 8335
Of course everyone has their opinions, but if all of a sudden something catastrophic happened to my horns and I found myself in need of a Bb in the $2000 budget range, that list above is what I'd go off of. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Play your wife's 37 if she will let you _________________ Bill Bergren |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8998 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:02 am Post subject: |
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But that illustrates the point. I have never gotten along with Bachs and they would not be my" desert island" horn. So his question about a variety of horns is valid for him.
Nevertheless -
Billy B wrote: | Play your wife's 37 if she will let you |
_________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Personally, I prefer the 43 over the 37 - these days a 37 wouldn't be my first pick, but it is the first pick for a number of folks, and it has become the standard by which most other trumpets are compared. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 857 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:23 am Post subject: |
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trickg wrote: | Personally, I prefer the 43 over the 37 - these days a 37 wouldn't be my first pick, but it is the first pick for a number of folks, and it has become the standard by which most other trumpets are compared. |
I prefer most anything to the 37. Never really liked the 37 bell, especially with the 25 pipe. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5675 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:49 am Post subject: |
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chef8489 wrote: | trickg wrote: | Personally, I prefer the 43 over the 37 - these days a 37 wouldn't be my first pick, but it is the first pick for a number of folks, and it has become the standard by which most other trumpets are compared. |
I prefer most anything to the 37. Never really liked the 37 bell, especially with the 25 pipe. |
A few years back I had it in my head that I needed to go back to the 37, and I found a good used Bach through a FB trumpet group, but it just didn't work for the sound concept I had in my head, and I ended up selling it. That's why when I had the opportunity to have the National Guard band buy me a new horn of choice, I picked the Shires with the B (43) bell rather than the A (37) bell. I really like this trumpet. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Professional level trumpets to put on short list |
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Hiker74 wrote: | *1972-1973 Bach Stradivarius 72- this was at a dealer I had some repair and rehab done for my sons student trumpet. It’s in great shape and has good action. Finish is great too. It sounds amazing and seems to feel really easy to play. I’ve heard 72’s are for soloists and for concert only. Could it be good for jazz? How much different is this than a 43 in terms of sound. |
I owned and loved an LR72/25 and used it for everything. I loved the big round sound I got. In retrospect I don't think it cut through as easily others, in large part because I'm not that strong a player. My teacher told that the 72/43 used to be a common choice for strong commercial players, I think because it can be mellow but in the right hands can also project when needed.
When my 72 got pinched my replacement is a 43/43 which I also love. It never gets as warm as the 72 but has a sound I like.
Not sure why I've never gravitated to the 37 though I've heard several and even played one that was very very nice sounding. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Hiker74 Regular Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2016 Posts: 38 Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Billy B wrote: | Play your wife's 37 if she will let you |
I have but I liked my 43 better. Her 37 is good though |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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My advice on this topic has been consistent for decades: If you're going to own only one trumpet the safest purchase is the Bach Strad Model 37. It's by far the biggest selling and most played professional level horn made.
My recommendation is not based on what I play. I'm an improvisational jazz soloist so I have a very narrow range of interest and, accordingly, play a very narrow range of horns which are specialized for that purpose such as a 1953 Martin Committee Large Bore.
However, in my collection I have a Bach Strad Mt. Vernon 37, a Bach Strad Mt. Vernon 43, a Bach Strad Elkhart 72* and a Bach Strad Elkhart 25 Large Bore so I'm familiar with these models. If I was playing a straight orchestral gig I'd play the Bach Strad Mt. Vernon 37 without hesitation and if that was the only horn I owned I'd play it for everything and not worry about it.
To me the Bach Strad Model 37 is, by far, the safest choice for an all around trumpet. My only caution is for you to play it before buying it. If it works for you then all is well. If it doesn't work for you then keep looking because if it doesn't work for you then maybe you need a more specialized or different horn for the way you play. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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Hiker74 Regular Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2016 Posts: 38 Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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I sent an offer in via email for the Model 72. It sounds really good |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 857 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hiker74 wrote: | I sent an offer in via email for the Model 72. It sounds really good |
Keep us posted _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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