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cmanner New Member
Joined: 23 May 2020 Posts: 6
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Bryant Jordan Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2015 Posts: 410 Location: Utah, USA
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure if he's going to be a Bach Artist, but many great and awesome players have been switching to Bach or endorsing them lately, most recently Ryan Kisor. |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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There's no reason for Botti to endorse/play Bach unless they pay him a ton of money to do that. In his live performances his sound is so engineered that he could play anything and they could adjust it through the sound board to sound however he wants it to sound to the point that it doesn't matter what horn he plays, at least in terms of the sound coming from the speakers.
I saw Ryan Kisor live in Omaha a few months ago. He played a New York Bach cornet when he played cornet, so it was a really old horn. I looked at the trademark close up when he left it on a stand during a break so I know for certain what the horn was. I didn't get a close look at his trumpet. Does it matter though? Ryan would sound great on any decent horn in good working condition. I know that Ryan has played a lot of different trumpets and he sounds like himself on all of them.
I wonder these days whether a pro's endorsement of a particular trumpet is really worth much. Back in my day Doc endorsing the Getzen Eterna Severinsen was a big deal. They sold a lot of them because Doc was very famous as a trumpet player on the Tonight Show and lots of kids were familiar with him and wanted to play that horn. Today, there's no trumpet player with that magnitude of public exposure. You'd be surprised at how many kids today say they've never heard of Doc or even of Louis Armstrong.
As I've said many times, "If you're planning to be famous don't count on being famous for very long." _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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Daniel Barenboim Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2011 Posts: 247
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Shocker!
He sounds better on a Bach just like everyone else!
😎
DB |
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ECLtmpt2 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2021 Posts: 147
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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It could be as simple as his Committee is in for work or a valve rebuild, or even a Dizzy whoops while on stage??. |
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Winghorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 2164 Location: Olympia, Washington
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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HERMOKIWI-
Interesting comments about Botti's sound, but have you considered that Chris may be playing a Bach because he likes the way it feels, plays and responds? Bach trumpets are wonderful and top professional players do not need a nefarious reason to play them.
And Botti becoming a Bach endorsing artist is pure speculation at this point, so why are you opening that can of worms?
I do not currently play a Bach myself (except for my large-bore C), but have played many in the past and there are a myriad of reasons for professionals and students alike to choose them. Even when a new "latest and greatest" horn is introduced, Bachs are still chosen so many times.
When a well-known player switches to a Bach instrument, it seems like some people want to suggest it is for some reason other than preferring the brand.
I don't get it.
Steve |
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Brent Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 1099 Location: St. Paul, MN
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:58 pm Post subject: Bach |
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When asked about his Martin, Botti said described it as a balance: as much as he loved the sound, he described the intonation issues as a constant struggle.
Maybe he got tired dealing with that.
Brent S _________________ Brent |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Winghorn wrote: | HERMOKIWI-
Interesting comments about Botti's sound, but have you considered that Chris may be playing a Bach because he likes the way it feels, plays and responds? Bach trumpets are wonderful and top professional players do not need a nefarious reason to play them.
And Botti becoming a Bach endorsing artist is pure speculation at this point, so why are you opening that can of worms?
I do not currently play a Bach myself (except for my large-bore C), but have played many in the past and there are a myriad of reasons for professionals and students alike to choose them. Even when a new "latest and greatest" horn is introduced, Bachs are still chosen so many times.
When a well-known player switches to a Bach instrument, it seems like some people want to suggest it is for some reason other than preferring the brand.
I don't get it.
Steve |
I admit that I have some of my own bias in my post. Specifically, I'm a "pick it up and play it player." That means that if it's a decent trumpet in good working condition I'll get a good result with it. So I don't really have strong brand or model preferences for my own playing (which is entirely small group jazz/improvisation).
I happen to play a 1953 Martin Committee Large Bore most of the time right now but I also play an Adams A8 in this type of setting. They are very different horns. However, if I didn't have either horn I'd just play something else. I have 50+ trumpets in my collection so I have lots of choices and I can make any of them work, even my 1913 Conn .484 bore, and sound like what people expect jazz to sound like on a trumpet.
That being said I acknowledge that many players claim to notice even the tiniest differences in horns and have very particular preferences which would result in them dramatically preferring one horn over another. So, certainly Chris Botti or anyone might switch horns because they like one more than what they're currently playing and Chris might do that whether he's paid to do it or not. So you are definitely correct on that point. You are also correct that what Chris does in terms of switching horns or endorsing something is pure speculation. I have no idea. I was just responding to Bryant Jordan's comment pertaining to not knowing if Chris is going to be a Bach Artist but raising the topic.
I've heard Chris live and he sounds fine on his Committee although his sound is engineered a lot through the sound board. Could there be intonation, response or mechanical issues he thinks would be resolved by playing something else? Who knows? We'll all just have to wait and see. If someone thinks one horn is better for them than another then more power to them. The mental part of playing trumpet is a big part of playing trumpet. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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tptptp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 1409 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:36 am Post subject: |
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HERMOKIWI wrote: | They sold a lot of them because Doc was very famous as a trumpet player on the Tonight Show and lots of kids were familiar with him and wanted to play that horn. Today, there's no trumpet player with that magnitude of public exposure. You'd be surprised at how many kids today say they've never heard of Doc or even of Louis Armstrong.
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I doubt many kids today have ever heard of any real musician....Not a pop or rap artist, but someone who actually plays an instrument!
_________________ Craig Mitchell |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:19 am Post subject: |
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HERMOKIWI wrote: | I have 50+ trumpets in my collection so I have lots of choices and I can make any of them work, even my 1913 Conn .484 bore, and sound like what people expect jazz to sound like on a trumpet. |
Supposedly the .484" bore Conn Symphony was a C/Bb "Vocal" model trumpet, and built only in 1914, so this would be an interesting horn. Horn-u-copia does not have any photo or details on it, so I am sure a lot of folks would appreciate you sending some pics to Kenton Scott to post.
The regular 1913 Conn Symphony Trumpet (there was only 1 model in 1913 as they were still building the plant and very space and capital constrained after the fire that ultimately broke CG Conn forcing him to sell everything to avoid bankruptcy) was a .453" bore and the words "real trumpet tone" are repeated a few times in advertisements. The meaning of that according to Conn was also included: "a cutting, piercing, strident tone" - and I have to agree with that characterization based on how mine plays. (not what I expect in jazz trumpet sound....) _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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improver Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1455
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:00 am Post subject: |
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It was just a matter of time. The new Bachs are awesome |
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J. Landress Brass Veteran Member
Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 425 Location: New York City
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:15 am Post subject: |
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I sold Chris a NY Bach earlier this year. Over the past few months I have been working with him and Andy Lott at Bach on a trumpet. He has a few Bach prototypes that he is trying out but is still currently playing his Martins. I see Chris frequently and can give you real answers instead of speculations that many are posting.
Josh _________________ Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com |
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Croquethed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 614 Location: Oakville, CT
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:24 am Post subject: |
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J. Landress Brass wrote: | I see Chris frequently and can give you real answers instead of speculations that many are posting.
Josh |
But where's the fun in that?
Thanks for the authoritative scoop, Josh. |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:55 am Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | HERMOKIWI wrote: | I have 50+ trumpets in my collection so I have lots of choices and I can make any of them work, even my 1913 Conn .484 bore, and sound like what people expect jazz to sound like on a trumpet. |
Supposedly the .484" bore Conn Symphony was a C/Bb "Vocal" model trumpet, and built only in 1914, so this would be an interesting horn. Horn-u-copia does not have any photo or details on it, so I am sure a lot of folks would appreciate you sending some pics to Kenton Scott to post.
The regular 1913 Conn Symphony Trumpet (there was only 1 model in 1913 as they were still building the plant and very space and capital constrained after the fire that ultimately broke CG Conn forcing him to sell everything to avoid bankruptcy) was a .453" bore and the words "real trumpet tone" are repeated a few times in advertisements. The meaning of that according to Conn was also included: "a cutting, piercing, strident tone" - and I have to agree with that characterization based on how mine plays. (not what I expect in jazz trumpet sound....) |
I don't know how to take a photo and post it here but here's a link to the Conn Loyalist website that shows what this model looks like:
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnUnk1914_Lrg_BbC_HiLo.html
According to the website they were made from 1911 to 1914. Technically it's a .485 bore. Mine is a trumpet model but they made a cornet model, too. A cornet mouthpiece falls into mine. A trumpet mouthpiece fits but sticks out a ways. A flugelhorn mouthpiece (Morse taper) fits almost all the way in and gives you sort of a "flumpet" sound.
Mine is gold plated with engraving half way way up the bell and it includes the whole kit: Alternate slides, trumpet mouthpiece, cornet mouthpiece adapter, cleaning rod and mute. A very cool horn and very rare. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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Dave_3 Regular Member
Joined: 23 Nov 2020 Posts: 64 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:14 am Post subject: |
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improver wrote: | The new Bachs are awesome |
I sure do like my 190S37. I'm hardly an expert, but it sounds great, to me. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:16 am Post subject: |
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HERMOKIWI wrote: | here's a link to the Conn Loyalist website that shows what this model looks like:
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnUnk1914_Lrg_BbC_HiLo.html
According to the website they were made from 1911 to 1914. Technically it's a .485 bore. ...Mine is gold plated with engraving half way way up the bell and it includes the whole kit: Alternate slides, trumpet mouthpiece, cornet mouthpiece adapter, cleaning rod and mute. A very cool horn and very rare. |
Wow! Great collector piece to have as it is super-rare. The horn has all the elements of construction in common with the regular Symphony models - the handful built before the May 1910 fire that knocked Conn out until 1912... And they were still rebuilding through 1914, so, other than multiple cornet models that were prioritized (cornets still being king in Conn's mind), most other offerings were minimal until 1914/1915 - at which time Conn ran out of credit and sold the place to Carl Greenleaf (who created the ##-Letter model codes). Very very few of these would have been made! _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:18 am Post subject: |
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improver wrote: | The new Bachs are awesome |
I'll say it again: I think one day this period will be looked back on as when Bach was building its best. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2533 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:49 am Post subject: |
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I think the new horns are without a doubt the best we have seen, horn to horn. I can play 10 37MLs and get ten great horns now! It makes student horn shopping a breeze. _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5677 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Botti on a Bach |
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cmanner wrote: | https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/242124352_2260209790788663_3588965155132483481_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=VAeL3p-etQYAX9Gpp2Y&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=405a93f89329d803a1452b5ce8ce23f8&oe=618E6FD3 |
Frankly, I'm much more interested in the IWC Big Pilot on his wrist.
The man makes music, and it's the music that's important - not the instrument he's using to achieve it.
I think one of the biggest misconceptions so many aspiring musicians have is thinking that they need to play the same instrument, or at the very least the same brand of instrument, as their favorite artist in order to achieve the sound they are going for, and they miss the fact that the instrument itself is just the tool - I doubt if other sculptors would have been successful with Michelangelo's chisels. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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