Is it possible to remove the 3rd valve stop rod from Bach?

improver · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1455

A friend asked me if you can remove the stop rod on his 37 and replace it with a Yamaha stop screw?

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

Anything is possible with a blowtorch, a bracket and some solder. Whether it's a genius idea or an idiot idea is in the eye of the beholder.

Maybe taking 3 weeks off and then quitting would be a more logical solution.
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HERMOKIWI

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440

Brassnose · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:46 am Post subject:

@ hermokiwi: I don’t think the question is stupid. As much as I like my Bach, the stop rod is unpractical and a stop screw would be easier. Not sayin‘ I’m doing it but worth considering.
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2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440

trompette229 · Veteran Member Joined: 21 Mar 2016 Posts: 203

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

I have a right to an opinion the same as everyone else. This is much ado about nothing. My opinion. No one has to agree with it.
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HERMOKIWI

improver · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1455

It wouldn't change the playability on the horn would it?

Halflip · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:20 pm Post subject:

JayKosta · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:48 pm Post subject:

raynjtrumpet · Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:53 pm Post subject:

There are at least a couple of problems with the standard Bach stop rod. First, it is pretty easy to bend it with a slight knock of the horn against a stand, etc. in the wrong place, resulting in binding of the threads against the rod guide pillars, which can in turn give an annoying rasp and enough additional friction on the slide to interfere with the speed of your throw. Second, the standard Bach rod is too short to allow the slide to be thrown far enough to reach a low F with 1-2-3 fingering without lipping the tone down. Certain Bach models come with a longer rod which fixes this problem, and that rod is available as a replacement part which can easily be installed by a tech (maybe even by most players themselves, though I've never done it). But I have heard that the longer rod is even more vulnerable to misalignment/bending/ binding problems.

So replacing the rod with a stop screw is a possible solution to both of these issues. I had an e-mail exchange this past week with a friend who said she had had this done on her Strad, and that she liked it much better. I have a stop screw on my Thane, and like it much better than the rod on my Bachs. You do give up the ability to adjust the rod nuts for a specific throw distance, though.

EDIT: corrected "difference" to "distance" above. Also, while I'm at it, I forgot to comment on the issue about playability differences. My friend didn't comment on any change she noticed after the alteration. But it's certainly well known that small changes can sometimes have large impacts on the way a horn plays/ resonates. Supposedly Yamaha got some major improvements to their Chicago models when they went from Gen II to Gen III by changing the weight and length of the water key, for example. Maybe someone else has first-hand experience with changes after a stop rod/ screw modification on a Bach.

Ray
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Ray Ritchie
Freehold, NJ USA

improver · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1455

Well she said she liked the change so its sounds like she likes the way it plays. It certainly would look better.

deleted_user_687c31b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

Glad to read it all worked out well for your friend. It’s no longer of interest to you, but I was going to suggest something like the Getzen slide stop:

https://www.amazon.com/Getzen-Trumpet-Black-Slide-Models/dp/B06XK69P9Y

My old Getzen came with one of those and it seemed to work pretty well. Not sure if it’d fit on a Bach, but if you’re handy with 3D printers you can customize one that fits (at the max length you’d need too). And it doesn’t require altering the horn itself, which can be useful in some cases.

My personal preference are spring-loaded triggers, but they’re more complex mechanisms (more expensive and more things to go wrong) and they’re bulky enough that they’re more likely to affect a horns sound. But when they work, they’re great.