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Conn 38b



 
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haas
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:57 pm    Post subject: Conn 38b Reply with quote

Hi, I can buy a Conn Constellation 38b XL (1979) for $ 1,200.
What will you tell me about this, Horn?
How about the intonation? Is this the right price?
Now I play the Holton MF horn.
Regards Paweł
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delano
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XL??? Never heard of. Anyway, the 38B is a small bore horn (0.438 bore).

The good years for Conn instruments were untill 1969 (the Elkhart horns).
After that, things changed and not in a good way.
So the 1979 horn is more or less a gamble, I would never pay that amount of money for a Conn from those years.
Though a good 38B is a great horn they are not the first choice for section playing.

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn38B1958image.html
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are 10 Holton trumpets with Maynard's name on them (ST-301 through ST-308, LT-302 and the ST-550). Most any of the 300 series horns are remarkable instruments, and the 38B's are fairly different from them (The Holton equivalent to a 38B would be the Model 50, later B-101, later T-102 until 1981 when that became a Bach clone and the 38B clone would be a T-104)
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2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played a 38B in H.S. and part of college; concert band, big band and combos. My teacher played one in symphony and for short times Chet Baker and Maynard played one. A good example of it's versatility is Don Jacoby's record, Have Conns Will Travel, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBXzw7Llhpk&t=1163s

Very versatile, easy to play. Just don't try to overblow. Maybe the best, consistent sound I ever got on trumpet was on a Connstellation.

I would gladly pay the price IF - it was in good condition and IF it was from another generation. Mine was a 1959-1960. For ne, your date would be risky.

I can't relate to one from your prospective horn's generation. If I bought it sight unseen, I'd make sure it had a good return policy from the seller,

You are aware of it's wider rap, right. For some. it's a factor. Never was for me.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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haas
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Joined: 10 Jun 2020
Posts: 25
Location: EUROPE

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
XL??? Never heard of. Anyway, the 38B is a small bore horn (0.438 bore).

The good years for Conn instruments were untill 1969 (the Elkhart horns).
After that, things changed and not in a good way.
So the 1979 horn is more or less a gamble, I would never pay that amount of money for a Conn from those years.
Though a good 38B is a great horn they are not the first choice for section playing.

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn38B1958image.html


I have st-304
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

haas wrote:
delano wrote:
XL??? Never heard of. Anyway, the 38B is a small bore horn (0.438 bore).

The good years for Conn instruments were untill 1969 (the Elkhart horns).
After that, things changed and not in a good way.
So the 1979 horn is more or less a gamble, I would never pay that amount of money for a Conn from those years.
Though a good 38B is a great horn they are not the first choice for section playing.

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn38B1958image.html


I have st-304


OK, I can definitely offer some perspective, as I have both an ST-304 and a 38B.

The 38B, as noted, has a taller wrap than most trumpets, and certainly taller than the ST-304. This also brings the bell flare closer to your ear, which alters how you will hear yourself. A lot of the comments I hear from those who like their 38B's often trace back to this difference. (though it has nothing to do with what the audience hears)

The 38B will not dramatically increase in perceived resistance as you go up in the way that the ST-304 does. If "blowing against" that feeling of resistance (its really a steep curve on energy needed to get a louder result) is integral to how you achieve range, then your range will suffer, at least at first, with a 38B. I am unaware of any horn with a steeper resistance curve going up than the ST-304 and similar Holtons (it results from an ingenious detail of construction devised by designer Larry Ramirez). However, if you would like something "freer blowing" the 38B might be it.

When not being forced in the upper register, the Holton has a rich core trumpet tone. The 38B is a bit brighter.

For me, the Holton feels more comfortable in my hands, the 38B tires my arms - but that is probably just a matter of getting used to the unique wrap.

Technically, the ST-304 is an "advanced intermediate" horn (300 level indicates this in the Holton scheme), while the 38B was considered "pro" by Conn. In reality, I think this distinction is meaningless.

Oddly given the bell shapes, the 38B seems to project a little better than the ST-304, but I have to wonder if in that analysis, I am adequately compensating for the influence of that closer bell on my ears. It may be an illusion.

So very different horns, but both excellent, popular, models
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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plankowner110
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Joined: 12 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Conn 38b Reply with quote

haas wrote:
Hi, I can buy a Conn Constellation 38b XL (1979) for $ 1,200.
What will you tell me about this, Horn?
How about the intonation? Is this the right price?
Now I play the Holton MF horn.
Regards Paweł


There is no such thing as a Connstellation 38B XL. That description by the seller of the Conn would make me suspect. Just be careful with online buying.

The Connstellation 38B and 36B models were made in one bore size only which was .438", but don't let the bore size fool you. It is a big sounding trumpet with a sizzling upper register and a rich, full lower register.

By the way, my Connstellation bell rim measures 1/4 inch farther away from the mouthpiece rim (and my ears) than does my Yamaha Xeno bell (same mouthpiece used for each measurement.) Your Holton MF Horn may measure differently.

Good luck to you.
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Halflip
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
For me, the Holton feels more comfortable in my hands, the 38B tires my arms - but that is probably just a matter of getting used to the unique wrap.


It is more likely that the 38B Connstellation tires your arms because it is heavy. According to the table of trumpet weights on the "Alan's Trumpet World" website (http://rouses.net/trumpet/trumpet_weights.html), the Connstellation is the heaviest trumpet listed apart from the Taylor Chicago (which, at 4.5 pounds, perhaps falls outside the realm of meaningful comparison).
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Subtropical and Subpar
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halflip wrote:
OldSchoolEuph wrote:
For me, the Holton feels more comfortable in my hands, the 38B tires my arms - but that is probably just a matter of getting used to the unique wrap.


It is more likely that the 38B Connstellation tires your arms because it is heavy. According to the table of trumpet weights on the "Alan's Trumpet World" website (http://rouses.net/trumpet/trumpet_weights.html), the Connstellation is the heaviest trumpet listed apart from the Taylor Chicago (which, at 4.5 pounds, perhaps falls outside the realm of meaningful comparison).


The 38B IS heavy. A friend in one of my local groups has had one as his main axe since high school. He let me play it once. It's a weighty thing. I would say it is (at least) several ounces heavier than my Kanstul 991, which is a near-38B clone except with silver plating instead of the Conn's nickel plating, a slightly larger bell than the Conn, a copper leadpipe, and obviously Monel pistons instead of Conn's stainless steel pistons.
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1936 King Liberty No. 2
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1958 Olds Ambassador
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haas
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Joined: 10 Jun 2020
Posts: 25
Location: EUROPE

PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OldSchoolEuph wrote:
haas wrote:
delano wrote:
XL??? Never heard of. Anyway, the 38B is a small bore horn (0.438 bore).

The good years for Conn instruments were untill 1969 (the Elkhart horns).
After that, things changed and not in a good way.
So the 1979 horn is more or less a gamble, I would never pay that amount of money for a Conn from those years.
Though a good 38B is a great horn they are not the first choice for section playing.

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn38B1958image.html


I have st-304


OK, I can definitely offer some perspective, as I have both an ST-304 and a 38B.

The 38B, as noted, has a taller wrap than most trumpets, and certainly taller than the ST-304. This also brings the bell flare closer to your ear, which alters how you will hear yourself. A lot of the comments I hear from those who like their 38B's often trace back to this difference. (though it has nothing to do with what the audience hears)

The 38B will not dramatically increase in perceived resistance as you go up in the way that the ST-304 does. If "blowing against" that feeling of resistance (its really a steep curve on energy needed to get a louder result) is integral to how you achieve range, then your range will suffer, at least at first, with a 38B. I am unaware of any horn with a steeper resistance curve going up than the ST-304 and similar Holtons (it results from an ingenious detail of construction devised by designer Larry Ramirez). However, if you would like something "freer blowing" the 38B might be it.

When not being forced in the upper register, the Holton has a rich core trumpet tone. The 38B is a bit brighter.

For me, the Holton feels more comfortable in my hands, the 38B tires my arms - but that is probably just a matter of getting used to the unique wrap.

Technically, the ST-304 is an "advanced intermediate" horn (300 level indicates this in the Holton scheme), while the 38B was considered "pro" by Conn. In reality, I think this distinction is meaningless.

Oddly given the bell shapes, the 38B seems to project a little better than the ST-304, but I have to wonder if in that analysis, I am adequately compensating for the influence of that closer bell on my ears. It may be an illusion.

So very different horns, but both excellent, popular, models


Thank you ! What you wrote is great!
I will ask. Is it worth buying this trumpet for my collection or looking for the early Conn 38b?

Thanks to everyone who wrote a few words
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

haas wrote:
I will ask. Is it worth buying this trumpet for my collection or looking for the early Conn 38b?


You will probably get a diversity of opinions on that. Given the QC issues with Conn at that point in time, and the price that seems steep - though everything is going up in price - I would be cautious.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
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