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HEAVIEST trumpet mouthpiece?



 
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Jon Kaplan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:12 am    Post subject: HEAVIEST trumpet mouthpiece? Reply with quote

Have you ever wondered what it would be like to play an ultra heavy trumpet mouthpiece? Not just a Bach Megatone weight or even a Monette STC3 weight... but truly over the top massive? Well... I tried it...

I had Vennture mouthpieces make me an exact copy of my Vennture orchestral mouthpiece (rim, cup, throat, backbore, gap, etc) - but instead of in a bach blank, I asked for the HEAVIEST possible blank... made from brass stock meant for Tuba mouthpieces, the Vennture GIGATONE was created.

The GIGATONE is an incredible player and in many ways totally feels like "home" - even though it is 802.9g (1.77lbs) compared to the bach blank piece which is 93.7g [8.6x heavier]. I primarily noticed things about the dynamics it could handle (including projection and feedback), the response/articulation, a difference in the harmonics present in the sound, and several effects on the slotting. I go pretty in depth in the video if you feel like checking it out.


Link

I'm curious to hear from you all - what kinds of things have you noticed and observed when playing heavier mouthpieces?
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience added mass there tends to "clean up" the sound - take some of the higher frequency noise out of the tone. Some of my favorite horns use deep heavy receivers for this, and the system design is well balanced with it. However, just dropping a Megatone (or an Inderbinnen) onto a random horn can sometimes result in a very lifeless tone. It varies by horn - and player.

Increase the mass of the overall instrument by 50% ....um, the word OVERKILL comes to mind!
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gregplo
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love these videos! Keep them coming!
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hibidogrulez
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a fun experiment indeed. Cool video.
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic vid here, and you’ve got many other excellent vids up too. Keep up the GREAT work; thank you!!
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon,

Great stuff. I enjoy your videos. Thanks for posting.

Warm regards,
Gritz
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Vin DiBona
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon, I watched that yesterday on Youtube.
I almost fell off my chair laughing at that "thing". You looked a little tentative playing it and who could blame you?
It did prove that weight and design do play an important part in mouthpiece design and it seems Vincent Bach got it pretty correct many years ago and that's why so many modern manufacturers do seem to copy or make small adjustments in that design.
Of course, some go an entirely different route, but many players seem to prefer the Bach shape.
R. Tomasek
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Bryant Jordan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watched the whole thing yesterday. Really like your videos. I don't think there was a better way to see what mouthpiece mass does than what you did.
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omelet
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
Jon, I watched that yesterday on Youtube.
Of course, some go an entirely different route, but many players seem to prefer the Bach shape.
R. Tomasek

I get that you could conclude this video points to possible reasons people may prefer medium weight mouthpieces (like Bach), but I fail to see how you conclude that the shape is relevant.
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Vin DiBona
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just over 50 years ago, Renold Schilke sat me down and had me test his mouthpieces.
During my time with him, he told me the external shape of a mouthpiece does have a distinct function as to how a mouthpiece feels to the player and how it can effect the overall sound. Change a parameter in the cup weight or shank shape and you get subtle differences in characteristics.
If you skeletonize a mouthpiece, you change the blank shape and the weight of the mouthpiece. That will usually brighten the sound considerably. Add a weight to the mouthpiece and it will generally darken the sound by killing off overtones.
Bach altered his original shapes over the years. Bear in mind he worked with the top pros of his time and their experiences led him to make the adjustments that improved what the mouthpiece produced.
It's medium weight and its physical shape has proven to be very beneficial to many players.
Go here to see how GR explains his designs on his mouthpieces. I've spent time in person with him and he came up with his design shapes for very particular reasons.
https://www.grmouthpieces.com/category-s/233.htm
Perhaps a manufacture can explain this better than I can.
R. Tomasek
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Robson
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: HEAVIEST trumpet mouthpiece? Reply with quote

Jon Kaplan wrote:
Have you ever wondered what it would be like to play an ultra heavy trumpet mouthpiece? Not just a Bach Megatone weight or even a Monette STC3 weight... but truly over the top massive? Well... I tried it...

I had Vennture mouthpieces make me an exact copy of my Vennture orchestral mouthpiece (rim, cup, throat, backbore, gap, etc) - but instead of in a bach blank, I asked for the HEAVIEST possible blank... made from brass stock meant for Tuba mouthpieces, the Vennture GIGATONE was created.

The GIGATONE is an incredible player and in many ways totally feels like "home" - even though it is 802.9g (1.77lbs) compared to the bach blank piece which is 93.7g [8.6x heavier]. I primarily noticed things about the dynamics it could handle (including projection and feedback), the response/articulation, a difference in the harmonics present in the sound, and several effects on the slotting. I go pretty in depth in the video if you feel like checking it out.


Link

I'm curious to hear from you all - what kinds of things have you noticed and observed when playing heavier mouthpieces?


Hey Jon! Your YouTube channel is just amazing!

I love ALL this nerd stuff!

Thanks a lot!!!
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trompette229
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

omelet wrote:
Vin DiBona wrote:
Jon, I watched that yesterday on Youtube.
Of course, some go an entirely different route, but many players seem to prefer the Bach shape.
R. Tomasek

I get that you could conclude this video points to possible reasons people may prefer medium weight mouthpieces (like Bach), but I fail to see how you conclude that the shape is relevant.


Instead of thinking of it as shape, think of it as weight distribution and maybe it'll make more sense. The differing shapes of the exteriors of mouthpieces (even of identical weight) subtly change the weight distribution which does affect the feel and sound.
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the auditorium "loud" example interesting - the gigatone was more brilliant.

OK - now for the real challenge.

Kelly Pro vs. the Gigatone.

The Kelly Pro in acrylic is a large diameter mouthpiece that is a skeletonized version of the regular Kelly blank. It should be the lightest trumpet mouthpiece available at 10 grams - 4 pennies. (I admit, I sanded down the shank a little to reduce the gap - so maybe it's really 11 grams.) Great feedback though I'm not sure anything comes out of the bell...

Come on Jon - put it to the test. 10 grams vs. 802 grams.
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Jon Kaplan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the higher overtones were definitely attenuated by the extra weight, but that effect was strictly when the instrument was played at the same decibel level compared to the regular blank. When I played the GIGATONE as loud as I could, it was far more brilliant in the hall - but the feedback is so poor that you couldn't tell from where I was (besides the fact I was playing as loud as I could). It's a bizarre experience to push that thing for sure.

Andy, I had never heard of the Kelly Pro. Excellent idea!!! I'll look into it.

TrumpetHerald!!! Thank you for all of your support. I love being able to give back to this community that taught me so much while I was growing up. Thank you for inspiring this trumpet nerd.
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HoosierBrass
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is crazy, I have been meaning to try a megatone/heavyweight mouthpiece but this is an entirely different level.
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hibidogrulez
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Cooper wrote:
Come on Jon - put it to the test. 10 grams vs. 802 grams.

Epic...
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Robson
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen something close here in Brazil

https://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-1677335062-bocal-de-trompete-elizeumusic-1cw-ls1cw-_JM?matt_tool=18956390&utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=organic

It's not so heavy like the gigatone, but it's much heavier than a megatone

(I think it looks like a truck wheel nut )
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"For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"
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bike&ed
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great video as always Jon! I’m sad I missed you when you came through fairly recently.
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delano
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Call it a megaton.
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